New RAD Patterns

Hi All,

Has anyone created a RAD Pattern project that is available in WinDev 12?

I am surprised at the reduced number of choices for types of forms if you select one of the new patterns versus the WinDev 11 compatible, however, I like the clean starting point of the Simple RAD and would like to build on that. I don't see a way to copy the Simple RAD to a RAD Pattern project so I can add MDI, searches, table-table and form-table options for window RAD, etc. In the WinDev 11\Programs\Data\Models\RAD folder is analysis (which is copied to your RAD Pattern Project) plus a WD folder that contains the classes and WD 11 style. Then in that folder is a Patterns folder but it only contains one file for each new Pattern which must be the generated version.

The help files are extensive but somewhat intimidating if you build all these forms from scratch and then try to get them to work. Much better to take a working model and slowly modify it to change behavior. I have a client with 10 sets of similar windows and links that he wants all to behave in a particular way and changes that behavior frequently. Better to be able to change a model and regenerate.

I have sent a request to PC Soft on how to copy Simple RAD but no reply to date.

Cheers,
Jeff Graham

Hello Jeff,

Did you ever hear back on getting the project files for Simple RAD?

Thanks,

David Martin

Hi Jeff,

I too have soooo many questions regarding the new RAD, and I don't want to put a big downer on RAD, but based on all the hype and the headline billing the "New RAD" recevied before WD12 was launched, I thought there would be a lot more info. made available

I have issues like (which I hope will seem trivial in a few weeks time):
1) How do I create new re-usable templates (...and what do I base them on)?
2) What are the "pit falls" (if any)?
3) Are there any useful techniques to bear in mind when creating the templates?
4) What things should I avoid when creating the new templates?

Unfortunately, (if you're new to WD), it looks like it's down to reading lots of help files and lots of "trial and error" - as the fine detail and functionality are shrouded in mystery. That's probably because to do the new RAD justice would need a whole book devoted to the subject...perhaps?

It's like a "catch-22", you need to be reasonably proficient with WD to get the best out of the new RAD, but the reason you want to use the RAD is because your not (yet) proficient with WD...:confused:

If, like me, you were hoping to save bucket loads of time developing your first project using the NEW RAD, it's time to think again... You'll probably only save the time on your second project:rolleyes:

...but having said all this... I'm not going to give up trialling and erroring...

Create a 'RAD Pattern project'

Generate the windows,and reports with RAD generate and use "Simple RAD" as your Rad pattern to do this.

After this modify the generated window (add popup-menus etc).

if all works like you want it gererate the RAD Pattern (see the Help FILE) and give it a name.

Hi Alex,

Many thanks for taking the time to respond...

Just given your suggestions a quick try using Simple RAD, but get compilation errors - have you seen this before or am I missing something:

Error:IDRADFichierB item not found in RADFichierC file.
WDWIN_Table_RADFichierC.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierB, Click WDWIN_Table_RADFichierC.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierB, line 2, column 54
Error:IDRADFichierA item not found in RADFichierB file.
WDWIN_Table_RADFichierB.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierA, Click WDWIN_Table_RADFichierB.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierA, line 2, column 54
Error:A prefixed element is named 'WTABLECOL_IDRADFichierB' and there is no 'IDRADFichierB' element without prefix.
WDWIN_Table_RADFichierB.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierC, Click WDWIN_Table_RADFichierB.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierC, line 2, column 21
Error:A prefixed element is named 'WTABLECOL_IDRADFichierA' and there is no 'IDRADFichierA' element without prefix.
WDWIN_Table_RADFichierA.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierB, Click WDWIN_Table_RADFichierA.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierB, line 2, column 21
Error:IDRADFichierB item not found in RADFichierD file.
WDWIN_Relationship_RADFichierD.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierB, Click WDWIN_Relationship_RADFichierD.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierB, line 2, column 54
Error:IDRADFichierC item not found in RADFichierD file.
WDWIN_Relationship_RADFichierD.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierC, Click WDWIN_Relationship_RADFichierD.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierC, line 2, column 54
Error:'IDRADFichierA' identifier unknown or inaccessible: to access an element beyond scope, use an EXTERN declaration.
WDWIN_Form_RADFichierA.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierB, Click WDWIN_Form_RADFichierA.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierB, line 2, column 21
Error:IDRADFichierA item not found in RADFichierB file.
WDWIN_Form_RADFichierB.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierA, Click WDWIN_Form_RADFichierB.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierA, line 2, column 54
Error:'IDRADFichierB' identifier unknown or inaccessible: to access an element beyond scope, use an EXTERN declaration.
WDWIN_Form_RADFichierB.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierC, Click WDWIN_Form_RADFichierB.WPB_TableLink_Table_RADFichierC, line 2, column 21
Error:'WCBX_IDRADFichierA' identifier unknown or inaccessible: to access an element beyond scope, use an EXTERN declaration.
WDWIN_Form_RADFichierB.WSC_Form.WPB_VISION_WCBX_IDRADFichierARel, Click WDWIN_Form_RADFichierB.WSC_Form.WPB_VISION_WCBX_IDRADFichierARel, line 6, column 14
Error:IDRADFichierB item not found in RADFichierC file.
WDWIN_Form_RADFichierC.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierB, Click WDWIN_Form_RADFichierC.WPB_FormLink_Form_RADFichierB, line 2, column 54
Error:'WCBX_IDRADFichierB' identifier unknown or inaccessible: to access an element beyond scope, use an EXTERN declaration.
WDWIN_Form_RADFichierC.WSC_Form.WPB_VISION_WCBX_IDRADFichierBRel, Click WDWIN_Form_RADFichierC.WSC_Form.WPB_VISION_WCBX_IDRADFichierBRel, line 6, column 14

Hi David,

Sorry for the late response. I have been moving.

I did hear back that there is no project available for RAD to start with but it may be added in the future. I have tried the generating of the simple RAD within a RAD project but without success. If you do generate a project and use Workshop -> Generate the RAD Pattern, then technical support says the generated project has to be copied into directory : Programs\Data\Models\RAD\WD\Patterns.

I have not had time to try this but maybe we should have a group project to create a base Simple RAD project that can be modified.

Hi,

As well as the error messages I'm experiencing, I've now read the first stage of the RAD help in more detail and I have a question - Is there a reason why the Analysis that WD12 picks up is in French? I have the English version of WD12 but the French Analysis is being used when I expected it to be the English Analysis as per the example in the Help?

I'm starting to think there is something wrong with my WD12 installation... :confused:

Yes i have had also these errors and i have corrected the analysis.

I think the analysis must be in french because you have generic text in the code like

RADFichierA ; this will be replaced by the actual files in your analysis

Hi Darren,

My Analysis is in French as well. I am also getting errors like you show above.

Unfortunately, it will be a while before I can work on it more.

Good luck and let me know if you make progress.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for replying...

The RAD feature of WD12 is a bit frustrating to say the least! Great idea, badly implemented I think.

We shouldn't have to amend the "standard RAD Analysis" to ge this thing working! And I'd have been here forever before I'd have worked out the the RAD needs copying to a specific directrory get it worjking as expected! :confused:

A command reference guide would be useful as well - but that's a whole new book!

I've sent an email to PC Soft support on this subject - I hope the reply enlightens me a bit.

My day job is an IT Application Consultant and I'd be "strung up" if I developed an application and released it without sufficient documentation - ah well... here's hoping

The documentation side of WD is a bit disappointing for me - seems PC Soft are relying on the developers that have been with WD for a few releases - if you're coming to WD as a newbie... there's a lot of trial and error required to get on top of things - pity really, 'cos WD is a great (great) dev system!

Hi Darren,

I think I know as much as one can know about the 'old' RAD. It needed quite a long way to go until it's been more or less error-free. There are still lots of inconsistencies but it's really useful as long as you know what to expect. Imagine, it took about 8 years from WD5.5 until today to get that rather limited RAD thing working. We still have one hard error in the OK button of the Form.MDL but that's easy to fix on your own. The Form-Table window still is missing the [Apply] button, the Table-Table window still is without refresh. Anyway. I told them about the OK-button code error and suggested a (my) solution years ago! No way to get this into MDL-code. The RAD programmers at PC Soft seem to be a special breed.

I'd appreciate if we get a way to generate a .wdw-file on our own. Either by XML or by commands, whatever. Not only controls but code too. One could build an external RAD system without relying on any of the exsting two RAD solutions. A window of opportunity for a third party item - not open yet.

RAD is a very important part of a 5GL - as PC Soft calls WinDev. The future of programming is in generating software from specifications rather that pounding keyboards. If the models are well-tested and working, the process of generation should yield perfect software. Seems, in that respect we're still living in 1995 ..

I know, our French collegues mostly do not use RAD at all and this makes PC Soft think, it's a worthless part of their software and could be delegated to the least reliable programmers of theirs. I do not know what has to happen in order to move RAD into focus of the development team at PC Soft.

Kind regards,
Guenter

Guenter,

Many thanks for the background info. and your thoughts - it fills in a few of the blanks in my knowledge of the WD RAD (...or lack of it) :spos:

I too think that RAD is a BIG part of something that is marketed as a RAD dev system. Being relatively new to WD, this all seems very strange to me - that the RAD part of a RAD dev system is lagging behind the rest of the functionality :confused:

The RAD being one of the major areas and reasons for purchasing WD. That said, there probably isn't a dev system on the market at the moment that can touch WD

At the moment I have my data model (Analysis) defined and (although I enjoy programming), I wasn't looking forward to developing a 100+ windows and batch(type) routines from "scratch" and I think I now need to devise my best and most effective way forward due to the lack of the full (reliable) RAD functionality - any ideas Guenter - Using "templates" I suppose???

Thanks again...

Hi,

Wow! 340+ viewings of this thread - it must be a HOT topic - so it's not just me who has a "thirst" for RAD knowledge!? :xcool:

I'm new to WD - are templates the way forward if RAD is still a bit (lot) "flakey" ???

I've sent PC Soft a support request based on my RAD errors & findings a few days ago, but no reply so far - it may be futile, but I've got to try! ;-)

I'll post an update "if" I hear anything...

Thanks...

Hi Darren

Experience taught me to send them a reminder after a day or two, because my mails "GOT LOST" at PCS.

Regards
Marius

Hi Marius,

Yes, I got a reply last night.

I need to send a simple project to them demonstrating the issues I have.

I'll keep you all posted...

Hi Darren,

Have you had any success with your RAD Pattern project?

Are you getting any cooperation from PCS?

Cheers,

Hi Jeff,

Since my initial reply from PCS Free Support I created a simple project demonstrating the French Analysis and that by simply generating this Analysis as a RAD pattern project causes errors.

This was sent a few days ago, so I'm still waiting for a response...

I'll keep you informed :spos:

Hi Jeff,

I've had a response from PCS with regard to WD12 defaulting to the French anlysis - apparently, it's a bug.

I've been supplied with an English version of the patternRAD.ana. Let me know if you'd like it - I can send via email (it's only 240k).

It involves copying this patternRAD.ana folder to your C:\WinDev 12\Programs\Data\Models\RAD folder (I'd suggest you rename the existing one with a prefix of old (or similar)).

Right then... onto the next stage of my journey into WD12 RAD...

Cheers...

Hi Darren,
Please email me a copy to val at valtronics dot co dot za

Thanks
Val

Hi. Please, could you send me the file? rsanchez at entrar dot com

Thanks

Rubén Sánchez Peña

Darren,

I would like to get a copy also. Please send to wdrad at towandapa dot net

Thanks,

David Martin

Hi,

So many people seems to want this file that I have made it available here with a few explanations.

[ilikewd.free.fr]

--
Pat


Message forwarded from pcsoft.us.windev

Hi Pat,

Thanks for taking the time to reply...

Mmmmm... seems to me that this is obviously an annoyance for MANY people - I wonder if people are reporting their WD issues or waiting for others to report it??? :confused:

It also seems to me that PCS are the ones who should make it available, but they'll never know the size of a problem if people keep quiet?!

Anyhow... if you're not Pat, then please see the download link above :spos:

Cheers Pat :rp:

Darren, Pat, thank you, the new RAD works fine now. I had used only the XI version. The new RAD seems a more intelligent option. It generate the table links and Detail form links for each window


Ruben Sanchez Peña

Hi Jeff and all,

After discovering the new RAD analysis pattern was available and we all by now have the new English pattern (it's even available on the PCS site!), I then tackled the issue of the errors when generating the automatic RAD with PCS. I've had a response from PCS and apparently it's been considered as a bug and has been given to the developers to look at.

For your reference, the bug number is #59 498/330769.

Unfortunately, there's no ETA on this particular fix... I hope I don't have to hold my breath for too long!

If you want to generate a list of errors of your very own from the existing standard RAD pattern, then simply follow these instructions (as supplied to PCS):

1) Create new project and give it a name – My_ProjectRAD for example, then click to Continue.
2) Click next on the Attached Documents section.
3) Select ‘RAD Pattern’ type of project and click Continue.
4) Select ‘No, I work on my own’ and click Continue.
5) Select ‘No, do not use SCM’ and click Continue.
6) Select ‘Yes, use the programming charter below’ and click Continue.
7) Select ‘Active vista’ style and click Continue.
8) Select ‘English’ language and click Continue.
9) Click the green tick to accept and create the project.
10) After the processing finishes – on the resulting ‘What do you want to do?’ window, select the ‘Full Application RAD Automatic Generation’.
11) On the RAD Generation window, scroll down and select ‘Simple RAD’ pattern from the list and click Continue.
12) On the ‘Choosing the files’ window click Continue.
13) On the ‘Entry points for the application’ window click Continue.
14) On the ‘User groupware’ window click Continue to accept the ‘Yes: Include the management of user groupware’ default.
15) On the ‘Including the ‘?’ menu’ window click Continue to accept the ‘Yes: Include the ‘?’ menu’ default.
16) Click the green tick to start the automatic generation.
17) On the ‘Choosing the options of ‘?’ menu’ window click Continue to accept the defaults.
18) On the ‘Application Help’ window click Continue to select the ‘Generate a help file automatically’ default.
19) Click Continue on the ‘Send feedback, notify incidents, create a business rule…’ window.
20) Click Continue on the ‘Register the product option’ window.
21) Click Continue on the ‘Configuring the ‘About’ window’ window.
22) Click Continue on the second ‘Configuring the ‘About’ window’ window.
23) Click Continue on the third ‘Configuring the ‘About’ window’ window.
24) Click Continue on the fourth ‘Configuring the ‘About’ window’ window.
25) Click Continue on the fifth ‘Configuring the ‘About’ window’ window.
26) Click Continue on the final ‘Configuring the ‘About’ window’ (title) window.
27) Click the green tick on the ‘It’s done!’ window and automatic generation begins.
28) When automatic generation completes, the ‘Help for your application’ window is displayed – click Continue.
29) Click Continue on the ‘General Information’ window.
30) Click Continue on the ‘Legal Information’ window.
31) Click Continue on the ‘Automatic Generation’ window.
32) Click Continue on the second ‘Automatic Generation’ window.
33) Click the green tick on the ‘It’s done!’ window to generate the help files.
34) Click ‘Don’t Generate’ button when asked ‘Do you want to generate the chm file for your help system?’.
35) After the auto generation has completed, there are 32 errors generated as I’ve listed below! Why is this???

As usual, I'll keep you posted...

All,

Further to my above post, apparently it's a bug because being able to auto generate directly from the RAD pattern analysis is the actual bug and if a fix is applied it will probably be to grey out the auto generate RAD option as you shouldn't be able to auto generate without having defined your own windows.