Migration Strategies - Syncfusion

Following a recommendation to have a look at Syncfusion - I am already pretty much 'sold' on this platform.

So - in a way - PCSoft may ultimately be doing us a favour by forcing the migration.

For me - Syncfusion is pretty much ideal.

Yes - a lot of money, time, and effort in migrating. However - it will also provide an opportunity to not just move away from PCSoft, but to modernize and significantly improve our product.

For anyone who may be interested - here is a small part of initial inquiries:-


My current application is WinDev and WebDev. Most modules are available in bith Windows and Web Application. Both share the same data model. They are designed to have a similar look and feel. However, some modules are quite UI intensive and available in the Windows versions only, while some modules were initially build as Web apps - and the Windows version merely links to the Web app assing the current user context. Given that - and also that Syncfusion is currently my preferred option - which technologies have the best fit if currently I want to replicate and/or improve our current products without WinDev/WebDev ?


Given your current application setup and preference for Syncfusion, transitioning from WinDev/WebDev to a modern framework can be streamlined by leveraging technologies that align with your goals for shared data models, consistent UI, and modular flexibility. Here's a tailored recommendation:

---

### **1. Best Fit for Windows Applications**
- **WinUI 3** (via Windows App SDK):
- Ideal for replicating and improving your Windows modules.
- Provides a modern, native UI framework with Fluent Design, ensuring visually appealing and responsive applications.
- Syncfusion offers a rich suite of **WinUI controls**, including DataGrid, Scheduler, and Charts, which can handle UI-intensive modules effectively.
- Supports integration with WebView2, allowing you to link to web-based modules seamlessly.

---

### **2. Best Fit for Web Applications**
- **ASP.NET Core with Syncfusion Components**:
- ASP.NET Core is a robust framework for building modern web applications.
- Syncfusion's **EJ2 controls** for ASP.NET Core offer powerful UI components like DataGrid, Scheduler, and Charts, ensuring consistency with your Windows modules.
- Supports REST APIs, enabling shared data models between Windows and web applications.

---

### **3. Cross-Platform Option**
- **.NET MAUI**:
- If you want to unify your development efforts, .NET MAUI allows you to build cross-platform applications for Windows, macOS, iOS, and Android using a single codebase.
- Syncfusion provides **MAUI controls** for UI-intensive modules, ensuring a consistent look and feel across platforms.
- MAUI supports Blazor Hybrid, enabling you to reuse web components in your desktop applications.

---

### **4. Shared Data Model**
- Use **Entity Framework Core**:
- EF Core can act as the backbone for your shared data model, providing seamless integration between Windows and web applications.
- It supports multiple database providers and simplifies data access with LINQ queries.

---

### **5. Modular Approach**
- **Microservices Architecture**:
- For web-based modules, consider breaking them into microservices that can be accessed by both Windows and web applications.
- This ensures scalability and flexibility while maintaining a shared data model.

---

### **Recommendation**
- For replicating and improving your Windows modules, **WinUI 3** with Syncfusion controls is the best fit.
- For web modules, **ASP.NET Core** with Syncfusion EJ2 components provides a robust solution.
- If you aim to unify development efforts and expand to mobile platforms, **.NET MAUI** is worth considering.

This approach ensures consistency, scalability, and modernization while leveraging Syncfusion's powerful tools. Let me know if you'd like help setting up a specific framework or exploring any of these options further!


My aim is to have small ad-ons only in the mobile platform. Can I equate .NET MAUI with the WinDev Mobile platform, and can I build the core applications (Windows/Web) with WinUI 3 and ASP.NET Core and integrate mobile add-ons at a later stage emplying .NET MAUI - or does this need to be taken into consideration prior to building the Windows/Web core. ?



Yes, you can think of **.NET MAUI** as a modern equivalent to the **WinDev Mobile platform**, especially since it allows for smaller, modular mobile add-ons while maintaining integration with your core systems. Here’s how this can work for your scenario:

---

### **1. Building Core Applications with WinUI 3 and ASP.NET Core**
You can confidently build your **Windows applications** using **WinUI 3** and your **web applications** using **ASP.NET Core** without needing to account for mobile add-ons at this stage. Both technologies are highly modular and allow for future integration with .NET MAUI or other mobile platforms. Key benefits include:
- **Shared Data Model**: By centralizing your business logic and data access (e.g., using Entity Framework Core or REST APIs), you ensure consistency across platforms and pave the way for mobile integration later.
- **Independent Development**: Desktop and web applications can be developed and deployed independently of mobile modules.

---

### **2. Delayed Mobile Add-Ons Using .NET MAUI**
**.NET MAUI** supports creating mobile-specific modules that can be integrated later. Here's why .NET MAUI is a good fit for your mobile add-ons:
- **Cross-Platform Support**: MAUI supports Android and iOS, which makes it ideal for mobile development.
- **Reuse of Business Logic**: Since .NET MAUI integrates with the .NET ecosystem, you can reuse the data model, APIs, and business logic created for your WinUI 3 and ASP.NET Core applications.
- **Blazor Hybrid Compatibility**: If you have web-based functionality, you can embed Blazor components within .NET MAUI, saving time and effort.

---

### **3. Integration Strategy**
To ensure smooth integration of mobile add-ons later:
- **Shared APIs**: Centralize your business logic and data access in a shared service layer (e.g., RESTful APIs built in ASP.NET Core or shared libraries in .NET). This makes it easier for future mobile modules to consume the same data as your core applications.
- **Modular Architecture**: Keep your core applications modular, so adding new platforms (like mobile) doesn’t require extensive rewrites.

---

### **4. Planning for Future Mobile Integration**
While you can delay mobile development, it’s wise to keep a few considerations in mind during the core app design:
- **Data Synchronization**: Plan for scenarios where mobile apps might need offline capabilities with local data storage and synchronization (e.g., SQLite with sync via APIs).
- **User Interface Consistency**: Define a consistent UI/UX design system that can be extended to mobile later, ensuring a uniform look and feel across platforms.
- **Authentication and Security**: Use a shared authentication mechanism (e.g., OAuth2 or OpenID Connect) so users can seamlessly switch between Windows, web, and mobile apps.

---

### **Summary**
Yes, you can absolutely build your core Windows and web applications with **WinUI 3** and **ASP.NET Core** and defer mobile add-ons to a later stage using **.NET MAUI**. Designing your system with shared APIs and modularity ensures future mobile integration will be seamless. This approach allows you to focus on core functionalities now without locking yourself into specific constraints for mobile development.

Let me know if you'd like further advice on architecture, a detailed plan for shared data models, or best practices for transitioning from WinDev/WebDev!

Hi, did you see the price? US$ 395 / month = US$ 4740 / year! Why don't you stay with WX ? Uh, I see, the "Community License" is free. Can you publish any products under this license? Isn't that for open source only?

Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
gpredl@syspredl.at

Hi Guenter,

1. The 395$/month is for 5 (FIVE) Licenses ..
2. You can develop and distribute commercial apps with the community license ...

So Syncfusion has Big/Medium and very Small companies covered with its policy.
But the problem with PCSofts new distribution model is NOT the price, it is that you have no access to your code/apps after you end your subscription. This may be OK with large corporations but not with ISVs.

This is not the case with syncfusion, delphi, xojo, VS or ANY other mainstream development environment I am aware of.
Only low-code tools, because of their nature, may have such a model ...

For a fund - which ALWAYS buys and sells - this model may seem promising.
When they sell the company - because at some point in time they are going to sell - it is better for the seller to sell a company with 20.000 licensees a year than a company with 150.000 dongle developers (who may vanish tomorrow).

But since the people, that run these fund(s), usually don't know anything about software companies, they may eventually destroy the product at the end.

Regards
Steven Sitas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2025 12:00PM by SteveSitas.

Syncfusion is a little pricey, but most of these things are, and if it's being utilised it's probably a fair price (as long as I can get the Community Licence

See below (What copilot says) when I asked about lock-in.

Anyway - this is the direction I have decided on - everyone will have something different - but the goal is to ensure that this lock-in thing is addressed.

Already - I have a reasonable end-to-end high-level plan to migrate from PCSoft and a necessary major upgrade to keep the product up to date with expectations for UI etc.

I am not in any great hurry - and I will formalize and test aspects of my conversion strategy over the next 6 months. Meanwhile - I keep developing in WinDev/WebDev.

The switch-over will be phased - with the option to add new components while still running the old WX stuff.

One of the other advantages is that the Web Application Server can easily be replaced.

Anyway - for now I have my Version 27 dongles. I have no need to update or purchase anything from PCSoft. Free (but still really annoyed that they treated their customers with such disdain).




What copilot says (my bolds) :-

Syncfusion is a comprehensive suite of software development tools designed to simplify and accelerate the creation of applications across platforms like web, mobile, and desktop. It provides a vast collection of UI components, frameworks, and libraries for developers to build feature-rich applications efficiently. Here's a quick overview:

What Syncfusion Offers
Essential Studio: A flagship product with over 1,800 UI components for platforms like ASP.NET, Blazor, Angular, React, Flutter, and more. These components include grids, charts, reports, and file management tools.

Bold Products:

Bold BI: A business intelligence platform for creating dashboards and visualizations.

Bold Reports: A reporting solution for embedding reports into applications.

BoldSign: An e-signature solution.

BoldDesk: A customer support platform.

Cross-Platform Support: Syncfusion integrates seamlessly with technologies from Microsoft, Google, and others, making it versatile for developers working in diverse environments.

Is There Any "Lock-In"?
Syncfusion is designed to work with standard technologies like .NET, JavaScript, and Flutter, so there’s no hard "lock-in" to proprietary systems. However:

Licensing: Syncfusion operates on a licensing model, so you’ll need an active license to access updates and support.

Component Dependency: If you heavily use Syncfusion components in your projects, switching to another library might require significant rework, as the components are tightly integrated into your application.

That said, Syncfusion's reliance on widely-used technologies ensures that your applications remain portable and adaptable. If you’re exploring it for your projects, it’s a powerful toolset with a lot of flexibility! Let me know if you'd like to dive deeper into any specific aspect.

Hello Derek,

In terms of our personal health, we are often advised to seek a second opinion. Can I suggest that the results from one AI should be confirmed by passing the same questions through one or two others ? An AI is only as good as it's sources and programming biases.

Regards
Al

Hi Al

Yes, I'm always open to 2nd or more opinions, but in the end, you have to make your own decisions (imho - especially when it comes to doctors

WinDev's original appeal to me was that I could focus on business functionality - not stupid low-level coding details.

This Syncfusion approach appeals to me now because I work for myself - not PCSoft - and if I have to program - well I have programmed for decades anyway, and currently a lot of my API interfaces are written in VS/C# and using the .NET interface to WinDev.

Another point is that I don't think any of the low-code platforms can keep abreast of the speed of change. For example - even with their 999 new features every year, WinDev are pretty much stuck with old technology, and I will be really surprised if they ever make a quantum leap to improve the UI.

Anyway - DeepSeek's search result is here - but they are all reading from the same script anyway (the Syncfusion blurbs apparently).

Best regards,
Derek

I really like to look of Syncfusion, and how it can pull in all of these technologies. But can you give me a brief overview of Syncfusion as a "product". Is there any Syncfusion "lock-in" at any point, as all of the underlying technologies appear to by Microsoft, Google etc.

### Overview of Syncfusion as a Product

Syncfusion is a software company that provides a comprehensive suite of UI components, tools, and frameworks for building modern web, mobile, and desktop applications. Their product offerings include:

1. **UI Components**: A wide range of UI controls for various platforms, including:
- **Web**: ASP.NET Core, ASP.NET MVC, JavaScript (including Angular, React, Vue.js, and Blazor).
- **Mobile**: Xamarin, Flutter, and React Native.
- **Desktop**: Windows Forms, WPF, and WinUI.

2. **Data Visualization**: Advanced charting, gauges, maps, and pivot tables for displaying complex data in an intuitive way.

3. **Productivity Tools**: Tools like **Essential Studio**, which bundles all the UI components and frameworks, and **Bold BI**, a business intelligence platform for creating dashboards and reports.

4. **File Format Libraries**: Libraries for working with Excel, PDF, Word, and other file formats programmatically.

5. **Integration**: Syncfusion components are designed to integrate seamlessly with popular development environments like Visual Studio and frameworks like .NET, JavaScript, and more.

6. **Cross-Platform Support**: Syncfusion supports multiple platforms and frameworks, making it a versatile choice for developers working in diverse ecosystems.

---

### Syncfusion "Lock-In" Concerns

Syncfusion itself is not a proprietary platform or runtime environment. Instead, it provides **UI components and libraries** that work with standard technologies like Microsoft's .NET, Google's Angular, or open-source frameworks like React and Vue.js. Here’s why there’s minimal lock-in:

1. **Underlying Technologies**: Syncfusion builds on top of widely adopted technologies (e.g., .NET, JavaScript, etc.). If you decide to stop using Syncfusion, your application’s core logic and architecture remain intact because the underlying technologies are not tied to Syncfusion.

2. **Standardized Code**: Syncfusion components generate standard code (e.g., HTML, CSS, JavaScript, or .NET code). This means you can replace Syncfusion components with alternatives without rewriting your entire application.

3. **No Runtime Dependencies**: Syncfusion components are typically compiled into your application and don’t require a separate runtime or server to function. This reduces vendor lock-in compared to platforms that require proprietary runtimes.

4. **Open Standards**: Syncfusion adheres to open standards and works with open-source frameworks, so you’re not locked into a specific ecosystem.

---

### Potential Areas of Lock-In

While Syncfusion minimizes lock-in, there are a few considerations:

1. **Component Customization**: If you heavily customize Syncfusion components, migrating to another library might require rework. However, this is true for any third-party UI library.

2. **Licensing**: Syncfusion operates on a subscription-based licensing model. If you stop paying for the license, you can no longer receive updates or support, but your existing applications will continue to work.

3. **Learning Curve**: If your team becomes deeply familiar with Syncfusion’s APIs and patterns, switching to another library might require some retraining.

---

### Conclusion

Syncfusion is a powerful and flexible product suite that leverages standard technologies like Microsoft’s .NET, Google’s Angular, and others. It doesn’t impose significant lock-in because it builds on open standards and generates standard code. However, as with any third-party library, there’s always some level of dependency on the vendor for updates, support, and compatibility. If you’re comfortable with the underlying technologies (e.g., .NET, JavaScript), transitioning away from Syncfusion in the future would be manageable.

Thanks for this timely heads up, DerekM

I came to Windev (v15/16) from Clarion just after ver9 ( a while ago) and have created and helped create some very nice software.

Over the past couple of years I've been looking at converting some of those C6.30 applications to Wx. Now, I think I'm glad that I didn't.

I haven't decided on a new IDE but Syncfusion is certainly in my list.
I am definitely eligible for the Common License.

It kills me that PC-Soft decided to go the route they are.
Maybe the new owners should consider a Common License as well.

Thanks again!

Hi

do not get e wrong
Syncfusion IS GREAT AND IF YOU ARE NOT MAKING MORE THEN 1 MILLION IT IS FREE. so no worrie s about proce.

But there are other things to considder.It is very nice hooking up a jsnon to a gui item. You get the ability to let the user configure the control if you want and that is cool . But and here is the thing.If you want something that is not in th egui item then that is a problem

I like Syncfusion in combination with webdev. as I can paste it in and make it work but have to opion to put webdev buttons wher ever I need.

webdev is one of the easiest programs to make very cool en powerful web applications . with minimal effort. I record time. If you are going to use .net core you will get a lot of boiler plate code and an Ide that is nothing copared to windev .

But if you are used to it Ok then it is good. But you might want to considder lurning front end development and maybe use visual code as an ide . I have been using that for python scriting and it is nice . Nothng like windev but nice ( use deep seek for coding help end off you go )

If you want a bit of windev stuff . Createing a nice gui ec you might want to take a lookat lianja.

[*] 1lianja.com it has a nice visula way of designing and a coolscripting language for logic
2 [www.xojo.com] 99 dollar per year ???
3 Lazarus seems to be free

lianja.com it has a nice visula way of designing and a coolscripting language for logic.But ther are others like xojo. But if has gains but to max flexibility .

But indeed it it is a fund that bought pc soft then they do not car if they kill the product .They want a return on the investment and the sellof thge rest or sell of nothing asl long as they have made the gains. That is how it is