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PCSoft new policy
Posted by fabriceharari
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PCSoft new policy March 05, 2025 01:17PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 78 |
--------------EN FRANCAIS EN DESSOUS----------------
Some months ago, PCSoft was sold to another company. As could be expected, things have been changing as a result of that.
Mostly, the SAAS moved from being an option to being MANDATORY. PCSoft just announce that:
- They will not be selling any DONGLE version anymore
- They will not be selling any UPDATE to existing dongle version
- They will not even REPLACE BROKEN dongles, but instead transform your version in a SAAS version.
First 2 are their choices and there is not A LOT we can do about that.
The 3rd one is troubling and the legality of it is highly doubtful as in facts it means that they would unilaterally force you to transform a lifelong license that you bought in the past into a rental one where you will lose access to your own sources as soon as you stop to pay... Sounds more like racketeering than legitimate business to me but I’m not a lawyer, so if you know a good one, ask!
I was saying before that there is not a LOT we can do about the first two points, but that does not means that there is NOTHING...
Why SHOULD WE do anything?
Mostly because with the SAAS version, as soon as you stop paying, you cannot access your existing sources anymore, do a correction or anything else.
I would understand that if you stop paying you do not get access to the NEW stuff, but that is not what they are doing.
And as there is no other tool that can open a WX project (yet), that means basically that all your projects would be dead.
A secondary point to consider is that if PCSoft dies, then ALL SAAS users will immediately lose access to their sources/projects.
See the story of humane AI pin here if you think it's impossible: [www.wired.com].)
All your customers will then of course probably sue you as you will not be able to support them anymore.
So a SAAS version that deprives you of your property is not a viable option for me and I'm clearly opposed to PCSoft new methods.
That said, I want first to reflect on the following points :
1. Any of you who did upgrade their dungle to 2025 has at least one year before having to make a choice
2. If, like me, you do not need all the 9xx news things coming out every year, this 1 year can in fact last 2 or 3 years easily, as WinDev/Windows generally does not need any update to keep functioning properly
3. Regarding WebDev, the same can probably be said, as there is rarely a big enough change in the web world that nothing works anymore
4. It's only if you do a lot of Mobile that you will need to do updates at some point and be forced to pass to SAAS.
This means to me that a protest form that is potentially very efficient is to NOT MAKE ANY UPDATE FOR ANY OF YOUR LICENSES if you can, or to update ONLY mobile if you really have to. It is in general quite easy to use a more advanced version for mobile as you most often don't share a lot of code with the other tools.
What will PCSoft do if a big quantity of licenses is NOT RENEWED, or if the majority of orders is for a DONGLE upgrade WITHOUT SAAS change that they will have to refuse?
It is a form of PASSIVE RESISTANCE that we can promote on all forums and social networks, and even in PM with all our contacts.
It's simple, does not prevent us from working for the next 2/3 years and can potentially make PCSoft CA lower considerably.
In all cases, whatever we/you decide to do, there is no emergency, we have several years to find a solution.
So, putting pressure on PCSoft, yes, by all means, but there is no need to put pressure on you.
Breathe! That, as everything else, shall pass.
Just remember to make a good backup of all your wx executables, just in case the next automatic update suddenly refuses to work in anything else than SAAS mode. That method to force us to switch would of course be illegal, but at this point, I do not put it past them.
Some people told me that big companies wont care that they are forced to switch to SAAS. It's possible, but I personally believe that if they understand that they will loose all their software development investment if PCSoft defaults, that will not go down very well.
On top of the passive license resistance, there is something else that we can do: If, like me, you have decided to not make any update to your wx tools except for those absolutely necessary, then please think to INSTEAD make a donation to the 'WXFoundation' (working name) that would be in charge of creating an open source/free development tool compatible with your sources.
If you are interested in that idea, please contact-us on wxfoundationlibre@gmail.com.
If we have enough people interested by that idea, we can start a fundraising campaign to create the foundation and hire the people necessary to start the project.
As there WILL be somebody who will leak this email to PCSoft, this should be interesting.
Best regards
Fabrice Harari
PS: Please copy/transmit to all your WX contact… Together, we have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Il y a quelques mois, PCSoft a été vendu à une autre société. Comme on pouvait s'y attendre, les choses ont changé à cause de cela.
En gros, le SAAS est passé d'une option à une obligation. PCSoft vient d'annoncer que :
- Ils ne vendront plus de version DONGLE
- Ils ne vendront pas de MISE À JOUR de la version existante du dongle
- Ils ne REMPLACERONT même pas les dongles CASSÉS, mais transformeront plutôt votre version en version SAAS.
Les deux premiers sont leurs choix et nous ne pouvons pas y faire grand-chose.
Le troisième est troublant et sa légalité est très douteuse car en fait, cela signifie qu'ils vous forceraient unilatéralement à transformer une licence à vie que vous avez achetée dans le passé en une licence de location où vous perdrez l'accès à vos propres sources dès que vous arrêterez de payer... Cela ressemble plus à du racket qu'à une activité commerciale légitime pour moi, mais je ne suis pas avocat, donc si vous en connaissez un bon, posez la question !
Je disais plus haut qu'il n'y avait pas grand chose à faire sur les deux premiers points, mais cela ne veut pas dire qu'il n'y a RIEN à faire...
Pourquoi DEVRIONS-NOUS faire quelque chose ?
Principalement parce qu'avec la version SAAS, dès que vous arrêtez de payer, vous ne pouvez plus accéder à vos sources existantes, faire une correction ou autre chose.
Je comprendrais que si vous arrêtez de payer, vous n'ayez pas accès aux NOUVEAUX éléments, mais ce n'est pas ce qu'ils font.
Et comme il n'existe pas d'autre outil qui puisse ouvrir un projet WX (pour l'instant), cela signifie essentiellement que tous vos projets seraient morts.
Un point secondaire à considérer est que si PCSoft meurt, TOUS les utilisateurs SAAS perdront immédiatement l'accès à leurs sources/projets.
Consultez l'histoire de l'épingle d'IA humaine ici si vous pensez que c'est impossible : [www.wired.com].)
Tous vos clients vous poursuivront alors probablement en justice car vous ne pourrez plus les soutenir.
Une version SAAS qui vous prive de votre propriété n'est donc pas une option viable pour moi et je suis clairement opposé aux nouvelles méthodes de PCSoft.
Cela dit, je veux d'abord réfléchir aux points suivants :
1. Ceux d'entre vous qui ont fait la mise à jour de leur dongle en 2025 ont au moins un an avant de devoir faire un choix
2. Si, comme moi, vous n'avez pas besoin de toutes les nouveautés 9xx qui sortent chaque année, cette année peut en fait durer 2 ou 3 ans facilement, car WinDev/Windows n'a généralement pas besoin de mise à jour pour continuer à fonctionner correctement
3. En ce qui concerne WebDev, on peut probablement en dire autant, car il y a rarement un changement suffisamment important dans le monde du Web pour que plus rien ne fonctionne
4. C'est seulement si vous faites beaucoup de Mobile que vous aurez besoin de faire des mises à jour à un moment donné et serez obligé de passer au SAAS.
Cela signifie pour moi qu'une forme de protestation potentiellement très efficace est de NE FAIRE AUCUNE MISE À JOUR POUR AUCUNE DE VOS LICENCES si vous le pouvez, ou de mettre à jour UNIQUEMENT le mobile si vous devez vraiment le faire. Il est en général assez facile d'utiliser une version plus avancée pour le mobile car vous ne partagez généralement pas beaucoup de code avec les autres outils.
Que va faire PCSoft si une grosse quantité de licences n'est PAS RENOUVELÉE, ou si la majorité des commandes concerne une mise à jour de DONGLE SANS changement de SAAS qu'ils devront refuser ?
C'est une forme de RÉSISTANCE PASSIVE que nous pouvons promouvoir sur tous les forums et réseaux sociaux, et même en message direct auprès de tous nos contacts.
C'est simple, ça ne nous empêche pas de travailler les 2/3 prochaines années et peut potentiellement faire baisser considérablement le CA de PCSoft.
Dans tous les cas, quoi que nous/vous décidions de faire, il n'y a pas d'urgence, nous avons plusieurs années pour trouver une solution.
Donc, mettre la pression sur PCSoft, oui, par tous les moyens, mais il n'y a pas besoin de vous mettre la pression.
Respirez ! Cela, comme tout le reste, passera.
Pensez simplement à faire une bonne sauvegarde de tous vos exécutables wx, au cas où la prochaine mise à jour automatique refuserait soudainement de fonctionner en autre chose qu'en mode SAAS. Cette méthode pour nous forcer à changer serait bien sûr illégale, mais à ce stade, je n’en serait pas étonné.
Certaines personnes m'ont dit que les grandes entreprises ne se soucieraient pas d'être obligées de passer au SAAS. C'est possible, mais je crois personnellement que si elles comprennent qu'elles perdront tout leur investissement en développement logiciel si PCSoft fait défaut, cela ne se passera pas très bien.
En plus de la résistance passive à la licence, il y a autre chose que nous pouvons faire : si, comme moi, vous avez décidé de ne faire aucune mise à jour de vos outils wx sauf celles absolument nécessaires, alors pensez à faire PLUTÔT un don à la 'WXFoundation' (nom provisoire) qui serait en charge de créer un outil de développement open source/gratuit compatible avec vos sources.
Si cette idée vous intéresse, veuillez nous contacter à l'adresse dédié wxfoundationlibre@gmail.com
Si nous avons suffisamment de personnes intéressées par cette idée, nous pouvons lancer une campagne de levée de fonds pour créer la fondation et embaucher les personnes nécessaires au démarrage du projet.
Comme il y aura bien quelqu'un qui divulguera cet e-mail à PCSoft, cela devrait être intéressant.
Cordialement
Fabrice Harari
PS : Veuillez copier/transmettre à tous vos contacts WX. Ensemble, nous pouvons le faire.
Fabrice Harari
International WinDev, WebDev and WinDev mobile Consulting
Free Video Courses, free WXShowroom.com, open source WXReplication, open
source WXEDM.
More information on [www.fabriceharari.com]
Some months ago, PCSoft was sold to another company. As could be expected, things have been changing as a result of that.
Mostly, the SAAS moved from being an option to being MANDATORY. PCSoft just announce that:
- They will not be selling any DONGLE version anymore
- They will not be selling any UPDATE to existing dongle version
- They will not even REPLACE BROKEN dongles, but instead transform your version in a SAAS version.
First 2 are their choices and there is not A LOT we can do about that.
The 3rd one is troubling and the legality of it is highly doubtful as in facts it means that they would unilaterally force you to transform a lifelong license that you bought in the past into a rental one where you will lose access to your own sources as soon as you stop to pay... Sounds more like racketeering than legitimate business to me but I’m not a lawyer, so if you know a good one, ask!
I was saying before that there is not a LOT we can do about the first two points, but that does not means that there is NOTHING...
Why SHOULD WE do anything?
Mostly because with the SAAS version, as soon as you stop paying, you cannot access your existing sources anymore, do a correction or anything else.
I would understand that if you stop paying you do not get access to the NEW stuff, but that is not what they are doing.
And as there is no other tool that can open a WX project (yet), that means basically that all your projects would be dead.
A secondary point to consider is that if PCSoft dies, then ALL SAAS users will immediately lose access to their sources/projects.
See the story of humane AI pin here if you think it's impossible: [www.wired.com].)
All your customers will then of course probably sue you as you will not be able to support them anymore.
So a SAAS version that deprives you of your property is not a viable option for me and I'm clearly opposed to PCSoft new methods.
That said, I want first to reflect on the following points :
1. Any of you who did upgrade their dungle to 2025 has at least one year before having to make a choice
2. If, like me, you do not need all the 9xx news things coming out every year, this 1 year can in fact last 2 or 3 years easily, as WinDev/Windows generally does not need any update to keep functioning properly
3. Regarding WebDev, the same can probably be said, as there is rarely a big enough change in the web world that nothing works anymore
4. It's only if you do a lot of Mobile that you will need to do updates at some point and be forced to pass to SAAS.
This means to me that a protest form that is potentially very efficient is to NOT MAKE ANY UPDATE FOR ANY OF YOUR LICENSES if you can, or to update ONLY mobile if you really have to. It is in general quite easy to use a more advanced version for mobile as you most often don't share a lot of code with the other tools.
What will PCSoft do if a big quantity of licenses is NOT RENEWED, or if the majority of orders is for a DONGLE upgrade WITHOUT SAAS change that they will have to refuse?
It is a form of PASSIVE RESISTANCE that we can promote on all forums and social networks, and even in PM with all our contacts.
It's simple, does not prevent us from working for the next 2/3 years and can potentially make PCSoft CA lower considerably.
In all cases, whatever we/you decide to do, there is no emergency, we have several years to find a solution.
So, putting pressure on PCSoft, yes, by all means, but there is no need to put pressure on you.
Breathe! That, as everything else, shall pass.
Just remember to make a good backup of all your wx executables, just in case the next automatic update suddenly refuses to work in anything else than SAAS mode. That method to force us to switch would of course be illegal, but at this point, I do not put it past them.
Some people told me that big companies wont care that they are forced to switch to SAAS. It's possible, but I personally believe that if they understand that they will loose all their software development investment if PCSoft defaults, that will not go down very well.
On top of the passive license resistance, there is something else that we can do: If, like me, you have decided to not make any update to your wx tools except for those absolutely necessary, then please think to INSTEAD make a donation to the 'WXFoundation' (working name) that would be in charge of creating an open source/free development tool compatible with your sources.
If you are interested in that idea, please contact-us on wxfoundationlibre@gmail.com.
If we have enough people interested by that idea, we can start a fundraising campaign to create the foundation and hire the people necessary to start the project.
As there WILL be somebody who will leak this email to PCSoft, this should be interesting.
Best regards
Fabrice Harari
PS: Please copy/transmit to all your WX contact… Together, we have a chance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Il y a quelques mois, PCSoft a été vendu à une autre société. Comme on pouvait s'y attendre, les choses ont changé à cause de cela.
En gros, le SAAS est passé d'une option à une obligation. PCSoft vient d'annoncer que :
- Ils ne vendront plus de version DONGLE
- Ils ne vendront pas de MISE À JOUR de la version existante du dongle
- Ils ne REMPLACERONT même pas les dongles CASSÉS, mais transformeront plutôt votre version en version SAAS.
Les deux premiers sont leurs choix et nous ne pouvons pas y faire grand-chose.
Le troisième est troublant et sa légalité est très douteuse car en fait, cela signifie qu'ils vous forceraient unilatéralement à transformer une licence à vie que vous avez achetée dans le passé en une licence de location où vous perdrez l'accès à vos propres sources dès que vous arrêterez de payer... Cela ressemble plus à du racket qu'à une activité commerciale légitime pour moi, mais je ne suis pas avocat, donc si vous en connaissez un bon, posez la question !
Je disais plus haut qu'il n'y avait pas grand chose à faire sur les deux premiers points, mais cela ne veut pas dire qu'il n'y a RIEN à faire...
Pourquoi DEVRIONS-NOUS faire quelque chose ?
Principalement parce qu'avec la version SAAS, dès que vous arrêtez de payer, vous ne pouvez plus accéder à vos sources existantes, faire une correction ou autre chose.
Je comprendrais que si vous arrêtez de payer, vous n'ayez pas accès aux NOUVEAUX éléments, mais ce n'est pas ce qu'ils font.
Et comme il n'existe pas d'autre outil qui puisse ouvrir un projet WX (pour l'instant), cela signifie essentiellement que tous vos projets seraient morts.
Un point secondaire à considérer est que si PCSoft meurt, TOUS les utilisateurs SAAS perdront immédiatement l'accès à leurs sources/projets.
Consultez l'histoire de l'épingle d'IA humaine ici si vous pensez que c'est impossible : [www.wired.com].)
Tous vos clients vous poursuivront alors probablement en justice car vous ne pourrez plus les soutenir.
Une version SAAS qui vous prive de votre propriété n'est donc pas une option viable pour moi et je suis clairement opposé aux nouvelles méthodes de PCSoft.
Cela dit, je veux d'abord réfléchir aux points suivants :
1. Ceux d'entre vous qui ont fait la mise à jour de leur dongle en 2025 ont au moins un an avant de devoir faire un choix
2. Si, comme moi, vous n'avez pas besoin de toutes les nouveautés 9xx qui sortent chaque année, cette année peut en fait durer 2 ou 3 ans facilement, car WinDev/Windows n'a généralement pas besoin de mise à jour pour continuer à fonctionner correctement
3. En ce qui concerne WebDev, on peut probablement en dire autant, car il y a rarement un changement suffisamment important dans le monde du Web pour que plus rien ne fonctionne
4. C'est seulement si vous faites beaucoup de Mobile que vous aurez besoin de faire des mises à jour à un moment donné et serez obligé de passer au SAAS.
Cela signifie pour moi qu'une forme de protestation potentiellement très efficace est de NE FAIRE AUCUNE MISE À JOUR POUR AUCUNE DE VOS LICENCES si vous le pouvez, ou de mettre à jour UNIQUEMENT le mobile si vous devez vraiment le faire. Il est en général assez facile d'utiliser une version plus avancée pour le mobile car vous ne partagez généralement pas beaucoup de code avec les autres outils.
Que va faire PCSoft si une grosse quantité de licences n'est PAS RENOUVELÉE, ou si la majorité des commandes concerne une mise à jour de DONGLE SANS changement de SAAS qu'ils devront refuser ?
C'est une forme de RÉSISTANCE PASSIVE que nous pouvons promouvoir sur tous les forums et réseaux sociaux, et même en message direct auprès de tous nos contacts.
C'est simple, ça ne nous empêche pas de travailler les 2/3 prochaines années et peut potentiellement faire baisser considérablement le CA de PCSoft.
Dans tous les cas, quoi que nous/vous décidions de faire, il n'y a pas d'urgence, nous avons plusieurs années pour trouver une solution.
Donc, mettre la pression sur PCSoft, oui, par tous les moyens, mais il n'y a pas besoin de vous mettre la pression.
Respirez ! Cela, comme tout le reste, passera.
Pensez simplement à faire une bonne sauvegarde de tous vos exécutables wx, au cas où la prochaine mise à jour automatique refuserait soudainement de fonctionner en autre chose qu'en mode SAAS. Cette méthode pour nous forcer à changer serait bien sûr illégale, mais à ce stade, je n’en serait pas étonné.
Certaines personnes m'ont dit que les grandes entreprises ne se soucieraient pas d'être obligées de passer au SAAS. C'est possible, mais je crois personnellement que si elles comprennent qu'elles perdront tout leur investissement en développement logiciel si PCSoft fait défaut, cela ne se passera pas très bien.
En plus de la résistance passive à la licence, il y a autre chose que nous pouvons faire : si, comme moi, vous avez décidé de ne faire aucune mise à jour de vos outils wx sauf celles absolument nécessaires, alors pensez à faire PLUTÔT un don à la 'WXFoundation' (nom provisoire) qui serait en charge de créer un outil de développement open source/gratuit compatible avec vos sources.
Si cette idée vous intéresse, veuillez nous contacter à l'adresse dédié wxfoundationlibre@gmail.com
Si nous avons suffisamment de personnes intéressées par cette idée, nous pouvons lancer une campagne de levée de fonds pour créer la fondation et embaucher les personnes nécessaires au démarrage du projet.
Comme il y aura bien quelqu'un qui divulguera cet e-mail à PCSoft, cela devrait être intéressant.
Cordialement
Fabrice Harari
PS : Veuillez copier/transmettre à tous vos contacts WX. Ensemble, nous pouvons le faire.
Fabrice Harari
International WinDev, WebDev and WinDev mobile Consulting
Free Video Courses, free WXShowroom.com, open source WXReplication, open
source WXEDM.
More information on [www.fabriceharari.com]
|
Re: PCSoft new policy March 05, 2025 01:38PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 268 |
Under Windev 2024 & 2025 License agreement (available under About -> License) it clearly states:
7. Limited warranty:
If the dongle is damaged, the CUSTOMER can obtain a new one from the COMPANY, provided that the
damaged dongle is returned at the time of their request.
Therefore, it seems they are obliged to replace damaged dongles.Although they can charge for the replacement but it seems unlikely to my layman's thinking that legally they can get away with charging just any ridiculous amount. Replacement and shipping seems reasonable and there will be a multi-year precedent set for that.
This move to SaaS is terrible if you cannot access and continue to use/compile your own source code from previous versions if you stop subscribing. I am stunned to read that, Fabrice. Really incredible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2025 02:09PM by JP.
7. Limited warranty:
If the dongle is damaged, the CUSTOMER can obtain a new one from the COMPANY, provided that the
damaged dongle is returned at the time of their request.
Therefore, it seems they are obliged to replace damaged dongles.Although they can charge for the replacement but it seems unlikely to my layman's thinking that legally they can get away with charging just any ridiculous amount. Replacement and shipping seems reasonable and there will be a multi-year precedent set for that.
This move to SaaS is terrible if you cannot access and continue to use/compile your own source code from previous versions if you stop subscribing. I am stunned to read that, Fabrice. Really incredible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2025 02:09PM by JP.
|
Re: PCSoft new policy March 05, 2025 10:17PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 47 |
Fabrice, rest assured that if a significant number of developers do not upgrade from their current version, PC Soft will certainly introduce methods to force existing versions to expire, to protect/advance their income stream. I just wish that this could be done while protecting/advancing developer goodwill.
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Re: PCSoft new policy March 06, 2025 09:00AM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 555 |
Hi Mike, be assured, they can't destroy your dongle and the - ageing - version of WX on your hard disk. After all, you paid for it and did not steal it. However, you are excluded from any new features of future versions! This will force a few hard decisions on you, your products, your customers and your company anyway. They're not easy to answer and answers will be different for each developer, each product, each company and lastly each customer.
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2025 09:08AM by gpredl.
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2025 09:08AM by gpredl.
|
Re: PCSoft new policy March 07, 2025 07:27PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 72 |
|
Re: PCSoft new policy March 13, 2025 02:35PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 160 |
To me the subscription charge is preposterous.
If a company is charging on yearly basis in a kind of mandatory mode then the price should be low. It should be around 250 to 280 euros per year.
It seems they are trying to follow the Adobe model here.
--
Yogi Yang
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2025 02:50PM by YogiYang.
If a company is charging on yearly basis in a kind of mandatory mode then the price should be low. It should be around 250 to 280 euros per year.
It seems they are trying to follow the Adobe model here.
--
Yogi Yang
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2025 02:50PM by YogiYang.
|
Brian
Re: PCSoft new policy March 17, 2025 04:19PM |
Case Study: AppForge Licensing Failure (2006-2007)
In 2006-2007, I utilized a software product named AppForge, a company known at the time for its innovative cross-platform mobile application development solutions. AppForge required the installation of its proprietary Crossfire client on each targeted mobile device.
Unfortunately, AppForge encountered significant financial challenges, ultimately affecting its ability to sustain operations. When AppForge abruptly ceased business in March 2007, the company’s critical Crossfire licensing server was taken offline without notice.
This unexpected server shutdown led immediately to licensing validation failures. Crossfire’s operational model relied on a centralized online licensing server for activation and ongoing license validation of runtime environments on mobile devices. With this centralized licensing server offline, users could no longer perform new installations or validate existing licenses.
Consequently, mobile applications already deployed and dependent on Crossfire began experiencing catastrophic failures. Users faced issues such as application crashes, unexpected freezing, or applications refusing to launch entirely, causing significant disruption to business processes and user experience.
While it is understandable and acceptable that discontinuing subscription services would result in the loss of maintenance, support, and future software upgrades, the abrupt and complete lockout from the integrated development environment (IDE) presents an unacceptable risk for customers relying on these critical tools.
In 2006-2007, I utilized a software product named AppForge, a company known at the time for its innovative cross-platform mobile application development solutions. AppForge required the installation of its proprietary Crossfire client on each targeted mobile device.
Unfortunately, AppForge encountered significant financial challenges, ultimately affecting its ability to sustain operations. When AppForge abruptly ceased business in March 2007, the company’s critical Crossfire licensing server was taken offline without notice.
This unexpected server shutdown led immediately to licensing validation failures. Crossfire’s operational model relied on a centralized online licensing server for activation and ongoing license validation of runtime environments on mobile devices. With this centralized licensing server offline, users could no longer perform new installations or validate existing licenses.
Consequently, mobile applications already deployed and dependent on Crossfire began experiencing catastrophic failures. Users faced issues such as application crashes, unexpected freezing, or applications refusing to launch entirely, causing significant disruption to business processes and user experience.
While it is understandable and acceptable that discontinuing subscription services would result in the loss of maintenance, support, and future software upgrades, the abrupt and complete lockout from the integrated development environment (IDE) presents an unacceptable risk for customers relying on these critical tools.
|
Re: PCSoft new policy March 17, 2025 04:31PM |
Admin Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 555 |
Hi Brian,
A similar catastrophe befell the owners of the Fisker Ocean vehicles, who could no longer even open the vehicles, let alone drive them, after the sudden disappearance of the manufacturer. The vehicles could no longer be used without the central servers!
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
A similar catastrophe befell the owners of the Fisker Ocean vehicles, who could no longer even open the vehicles, let alone drive them, after the sudden disappearance of the manufacturer. The vehicles could no longer be used without the central servers!
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
|
Re: PCSoft new policy March 17, 2025 05:11PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 268 |
Brian,
This is exactly the problem with this new policy from PCSoft; there is no guarantee that PCSoft will always be able to provide access to their licensing servers and without them you can be locked out of your source code. That would be an unacceptable business risk.
An option would be this (I hope PCSoft read this suggestion): The IDE must always be able to open and provide access to the entire project contents. But if the subscription stops then the IDE will no longer compile new EXE files. This would be an acceptable solution for us because we could still continue to have access to our sources.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2025 06:02PM by JP.
This is exactly the problem with this new policy from PCSoft; there is no guarantee that PCSoft will always be able to provide access to their licensing servers and without them you can be locked out of your source code. That would be an unacceptable business risk.
An option would be this (I hope PCSoft read this suggestion): The IDE must always be able to open and provide access to the entire project contents. But if the subscription stops then the IDE will no longer compile new EXE files. This would be an acceptable solution for us because we could still continue to have access to our sources.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2025 06:02PM by JP.
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Re: PCSoft new policy March 17, 2025 06:28PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 139 |
No not really .If they stop heir services because the business is dead then you can no longer make exe eventhough youpaid.
I have seenan update onhe dongle version today and got it though?
If they force saas .Then i will no be using windev for new stuff . I will have to choose an other platform. And if Ihave done so then windev will be faced out quite quickly. A pitty that would be as it is a nice platform but Ai is here to help out with any language .Better take a language used by lots of people and take one that is free , opensource would be my suggestion.
lianja app builder seems to be a nice project but thre are others as well if you want rappid code the windev way
I have seenan update onhe dongle version today and got it though?
If they force saas .Then i will no be using windev for new stuff . I will have to choose an other platform. And if Ihave done so then windev will be faced out quite quickly. A pitty that would be as it is a nice platform but Ai is here to help out with any language .Better take a language used by lots of people and take one that is free , opensource would be my suggestion.
lianja app builder seems to be a nice project but thre are others as well if you want rappid code the windev way
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PETER ZHOU
Re: PCSoft new policy March 18, 2025 04:18AM |
I can understand that PCSOFT wants continue stream of sales (profit), they should still have the both dongle and Saas version "with a twist"..
(1) for dongle version
charge a fee for yearly upgrade for new version, the price can be attractive to entice to continue the upgrade (credit card auto-deduction or some grace period - which developer knows when it will be deducted), auto send the upgrade info via email.
- if developer choose to stop and then continue, then the next yearly upgrade can be higher in price.
- If new developer choose to buy PCSOFT products - they can include the price (that include the 2nd & 3rd year upgrade ), thus ensuring more profit for new sales.
This way, most of the existing developer can feel safe in control of their own source code and gets to still own the existing windev/webdev/windev mobile version.
(2) For Saas version, they should at least allow existing version to be used in case somethig happened to the license Auth Server.
Regards,
PETER ZHOU
(1) for dongle version
charge a fee for yearly upgrade for new version, the price can be attractive to entice to continue the upgrade (credit card auto-deduction or some grace period - which developer knows when it will be deducted), auto send the upgrade info via email.
- if developer choose to stop and then continue, then the next yearly upgrade can be higher in price.
- If new developer choose to buy PCSOFT products - they can include the price (that include the 2nd & 3rd year upgrade ), thus ensuring more profit for new sales.
This way, most of the existing developer can feel safe in control of their own source code and gets to still own the existing windev/webdev/windev mobile version.
(2) For Saas version, they should at least allow existing version to be used in case somethig happened to the license Auth Server.
Regards,
PETER ZHOU
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PETER ZHOU
Re: PCSoft new policy March 18, 2025 04:20AM |
PETER ZHOU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can understand that PCSOFT wants continue stream
> of sales (profit), they should still have the both
> dongle and Saas version "with a twist"..
>
> (1) for dongle version
> charge a fee for yearly upgrade for new version,
> the price can be attractive to entice to continue
> the upgrade (credit card auto-deduction or some
> grace period - which developer knows when it will
> be deducted), auto send the upgrade info via
> email.
>
> - if developer choose to stop and then continue,
> then the next yearly upgrade can be higher in
> price.
>
> - If new developer choose to buy PCSOFT products -
> they can include the price (that include the 2nd &
> 3rd year upgrade ), thus ensuring more profit for
> new sales.
>
> This way, most of the existing developer can feel
> safe in control of their own source code and gets
> to still own the existing windev/webdev/windev
> mobile version.
>
> (2) For Saas version, they should at least allow
> existing version to be used in case somethig
> happened to the license Auth Server.
>
> Regards,
>
> PETER ZHOU
Sorry, typo error
I can understand that PCSOFT wants continue stream of sales (profit), they should still have the both dongle and Saas version "with a twist"..
For dongle version
charge a fee for yearly upgrade for new version, the price can be attractive to entice to continue the upgrade (credit card auto-deduction or some grace period - which developer knows when it will be deducted), auto send the upgrade info via email.
- if developer choose to stop and then continue, then the next yearly upgrade can be higher in price.
- If new developer choose to buy PCSOFT products - they can include the price (that include the 2nd & 3rd year upgrade ), thus ensuring more profit for new sales.
This way, most of the existing developer can feel safe in control of their own source code and gets to still own the existing windev/webdev/windev mobile version.
For Saas version, they should at least allow existing version to be used in case somethig happened to the license Auth Server.
Regards,
PETER ZHOU
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can understand that PCSOFT wants continue stream
> of sales (profit), they should still have the both
> dongle and Saas version "with a twist"..
>
> (1) for dongle version
> charge a fee for yearly upgrade for new version,
> the price can be attractive to entice to continue
> the upgrade (credit card auto-deduction or some
> grace period - which developer knows when it will
> be deducted), auto send the upgrade info via
> email.
>
> - if developer choose to stop and then continue,
> then the next yearly upgrade can be higher in
> price.
>
> - If new developer choose to buy PCSOFT products -
> they can include the price (that include the 2nd &
> 3rd year upgrade ), thus ensuring more profit for
> new sales.
>
> This way, most of the existing developer can feel
> safe in control of their own source code and gets
> to still own the existing windev/webdev/windev
> mobile version.
>
> (2) For Saas version, they should at least allow
> existing version to be used in case somethig
> happened to the license Auth Server.
>
> Regards,
>
> PETER ZHOU
Sorry, typo error
I can understand that PCSOFT wants continue stream of sales (profit), they should still have the both dongle and Saas version "with a twist"..
For dongle version
charge a fee for yearly upgrade for new version, the price can be attractive to entice to continue the upgrade (credit card auto-deduction or some grace period - which developer knows when it will be deducted), auto send the upgrade info via email.
- if developer choose to stop and then continue, then the next yearly upgrade can be higher in price.
- If new developer choose to buy PCSOFT products - they can include the price (that include the 2nd & 3rd year upgrade ), thus ensuring more profit for new sales.
This way, most of the existing developer can feel safe in control of their own source code and gets to still own the existing windev/webdev/windev mobile version.
For Saas version, they should at least allow existing version to be used in case somethig happened to the license Auth Server.
Regards,
PETER ZHOU
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Re: PCSoft new policy March 18, 2025 07:19AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 139 |
Hi Peter,
Not giving new customers a discount means their customer base will not increase.
I think they believe they can increase revenue due to the following:
Let's say there are 130,000 licenses. That should be the correct number.
More than half of them only use WinDev. The other half might have more, so we’ll say WinDev + WebDev, and a small group has all products.
WinDev: 450 × 60,000 = 27 million
WinDev + WebDev + App Server: 900 × 40,000 = 36 million
All products: 1,150 × 30,000 = 34.5 million
Then, some additional revenue from LST and consultancy: 0.6 million
So, in total, the maximum profit would be around 98–100 million with new customers.
But if only 50% choose to upgrade, then it's around 50 million.
For them, if they can get everyone to upgrade using the SaaS model, then:
(45 × 12) × 60,000 = 32 million for WinDev or WebDev
(89 × 12) × 70,000 = 74.7 million for 2 or 3 products
Total: 106 million per year, which doubles their profit.
Then they have insane prices for connectors:
€45 per month for a database connector! If you need SQL Server, that’s an extra €570 per year!
€25 per month for the app server = €370 per year (this used to be €150 per year).
Enormous fees for consultancy: 3 hours = €600.
I think this is the work of an investment group that just wants to make money for a few years. They don’t care if the product survives.
At these prices, we might as well look elsewhere. Low-code platforms like Mendix handle web and mobile for just $50 per month. Just saying. I think this is where we are now.
Please leave comments if I got something wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2025 07:24AM by Allard.
Not giving new customers a discount means their customer base will not increase.
I think they believe they can increase revenue due to the following:
Let's say there are 130,000 licenses. That should be the correct number.
More than half of them only use WinDev. The other half might have more, so we’ll say WinDev + WebDev, and a small group has all products.
WinDev: 450 × 60,000 = 27 million
WinDev + WebDev + App Server: 900 × 40,000 = 36 million
All products: 1,150 × 30,000 = 34.5 million
Then, some additional revenue from LST and consultancy: 0.6 million
So, in total, the maximum profit would be around 98–100 million with new customers.
But if only 50% choose to upgrade, then it's around 50 million.
For them, if they can get everyone to upgrade using the SaaS model, then:
(45 × 12) × 60,000 = 32 million for WinDev or WebDev
(89 × 12) × 70,000 = 74.7 million for 2 or 3 products
Total: 106 million per year, which doubles their profit.
Then they have insane prices for connectors:
€45 per month for a database connector! If you need SQL Server, that’s an extra €570 per year!
€25 per month for the app server = €370 per year (this used to be €150 per year).
Enormous fees for consultancy: 3 hours = €600.
I think this is the work of an investment group that just wants to make money for a few years. They don’t care if the product survives.
At these prices, we might as well look elsewhere. Low-code platforms like Mendix handle web and mobile for just $50 per month. Just saying. I think this is where we are now.
Please leave comments if I got something wrong.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2025 07:24AM by Allard.
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Re: PCSoft new policy March 18, 2025 06:59PM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 78 |
and one more time here :
Hello everybody,
I worked with Michel Garcia to create a web site with as much information about the situation as possible and some ideas for the future
Please feel free to have a look (Français, English, Espanol), to register for more information later, and to pass the link to all your contacts
The current URL is [wxinfo.kalanda.info]
I'm saying current because it's possible that PCSoft use lawyers to make it close down, so if any of you has a private webdev 2024 server to host a more secure version, please let me know
You can join us for that on contact@wxinfo.net
Fabrice Harari
International WinDev, WebDev and WinDev mobile Consulting
Free Video Courses, free WXShowroom.com, open source WXReplication, open
source WXEDM.
More information on [www.fabriceharari.com]
Hello everybody,
I worked with Michel Garcia to create a web site with as much information about the situation as possible and some ideas for the future
Please feel free to have a look (Français, English, Espanol), to register for more information later, and to pass the link to all your contacts
The current URL is [wxinfo.kalanda.info]
I'm saying current because it's possible that PCSoft use lawyers to make it close down, so if any of you has a private webdev 2024 server to host a more secure version, please let me know
You can join us for that on contact@wxinfo.net
Fabrice Harari
International WinDev, WebDev and WinDev mobile Consulting
Free Video Courses, free WXShowroom.com, open source WXReplication, open
source WXEDM.
More information on [www.fabriceharari.com]
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Re: PCSoft new policy March 19, 2025 09:11AM |
Registered: 6 years ago Posts: 260 |
Hi Fabrice,
1. the register button does not work on the site ...
2. YOUR site has been unreachable for quite some time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
About PCSofts new policy
1. It is of course their right to go to a SAAS model- no question about that
But they must understand that they will lose a LOT of customers.
At the end, it has to do with their customer base:
- Small ISVs cannot work under the new SAAS model
- It may (?) be OK with large corporations
2. They must rethink their policy about "broken or stolen" hasps - I think that there are many legal issues here.
At the end, It is like when a couple divorces: it is better to "separate as friends rather than as enemies"
Nobody wins at the end ..
Regards
Steven Sitas
1. the register button does not work on the site ...
2. YOUR site has been unreachable for quite some time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
About PCSofts new policy
1. It is of course their right to go to a SAAS model- no question about that
But they must understand that they will lose a LOT of customers.
At the end, it has to do with their customer base:
- Small ISVs cannot work under the new SAAS model
- It may (?) be OK with large corporations
2. They must rethink their policy about "broken or stolen" hasps - I think that there are many legal issues here.
At the end, It is like when a couple divorces: it is better to "separate as friends rather than as enemies"
Nobody wins at the end ..
Regards
Steven Sitas