Home
>
WinDev Forum
>
Topic
WEBIFY - how does it work?
Posted by gpredl
|
WEBIFY - how does it work? April 13, 2021 12:44PM |
Admin Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 501 |
I'd like to read some comments about this function in WINDEV 26! Thank you!
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2021 01:03PM by gpredl.
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2021 01:03PM by gpredl.
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 16, 2021 12:43PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 166 |
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 16, 2021 06:05PM |
Admin Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 501 |
Hi André,
yes, the WEBIFY function (now: "webification") should convert a WINDEV project into a WEBDEV project.
[help.windev.com]
We don't use WEBDEV and I wanted to know whether it works or not - seen through the eyes of a seasoned WEBDEV developer.
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
yes, the WEBIFY function (now: "webification") should convert a WINDEV project into a WEBDEV project.
[help.windev.com]
We don't use WEBDEV and I wanted to know whether it works or not - seen through the eyes of a seasoned WEBDEV developer.
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 16, 2021 10:06PM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 107 |
Hi Günter
The web paradigms and classical windows (or client/server) paradigms are by far unrelated in terms of architecture and thus coding...
Therefore the Webify thing is more of a marketing theme than something that will work in real life on the long term.
It reminds me (as a JDEdwards Expert) to the days back in the nineties where we had co-existence between JDE World (the IBM RPG based ERP Solution) and JDE OneWorld (a pure C based client/server multi platform ERP version of JDE) that would allow existing World customers to easily migrate to the new client/server based paradigm of that time in a phased approach, module by module.
Although it sounded good from a marketing perspective, none of the customers (I only knew of one in Europe throughout my career) was really interested in it and it was never a big success. Either customers migrated completely by moving to the new paradigm with OneWorld completely or they bought a new ERP (typically SAP or Oracle Business Suite at that time), but almost none were interested in the half baked solutions of stepping into something half mainframe/half client-server.
The same goes with this PCS webify proposition imho. It will always be a half baked solution and imho it is a waste of resources on behalf of PCSoft since it is a pure marketing trick that has no future from an architectural point of view. The architectural paradigms between the platforms are just too different. Without a proper architecture as of the start with an extreme segregation between UI, Business and Data tier this simply cannot work or has no future. Nowadays for scalability and performance reasons, other segregations of concerns are even required. Often with cloud based server side installations in mind
Also (and as someone working on enterprise grade architectures that work globally in other technologies than those of PCS) software is changing at an immense pace currently. Customers are expecting software to be able to plug in into solutions like Teams, Slack, Whatsapp, et al, ... simply as a service by pointing at them. Software is expected to provide services within these third party solutions as if they were part of it. The future is cloud based where most software will simply be a Lego brick within an extremely heterogenous environment to cover a certain business process as if it is being part of it...
As always PCS if moving in the right direction but they are pure followers with a couple of years to catch up...
So if you want to have my opinion on PCS Webify: "a plaster on a wooden leg" (In brief: it has no future)
Just my 2 cents...
Peter Holemans
The web paradigms and classical windows (or client/server) paradigms are by far unrelated in terms of architecture and thus coding...
Therefore the Webify thing is more of a marketing theme than something that will work in real life on the long term.
It reminds me (as a JDEdwards Expert) to the days back in the nineties where we had co-existence between JDE World (the IBM RPG based ERP Solution) and JDE OneWorld (a pure C based client/server multi platform ERP version of JDE) that would allow existing World customers to easily migrate to the new client/server based paradigm of that time in a phased approach, module by module.
Although it sounded good from a marketing perspective, none of the customers (I only knew of one in Europe throughout my career) was really interested in it and it was never a big success. Either customers migrated completely by moving to the new paradigm with OneWorld completely or they bought a new ERP (typically SAP or Oracle Business Suite at that time), but almost none were interested in the half baked solutions of stepping into something half mainframe/half client-server.
The same goes with this PCS webify proposition imho. It will always be a half baked solution and imho it is a waste of resources on behalf of PCSoft since it is a pure marketing trick that has no future from an architectural point of view. The architectural paradigms between the platforms are just too different. Without a proper architecture as of the start with an extreme segregation between UI, Business and Data tier this simply cannot work or has no future. Nowadays for scalability and performance reasons, other segregations of concerns are even required. Often with cloud based server side installations in mind
Also (and as someone working on enterprise grade architectures that work globally in other technologies than those of PCS) software is changing at an immense pace currently. Customers are expecting software to be able to plug in into solutions like Teams, Slack, Whatsapp, et al, ... simply as a service by pointing at them. Software is expected to provide services within these third party solutions as if they were part of it. The future is cloud based where most software will simply be a Lego brick within an extremely heterogenous environment to cover a certain business process as if it is being part of it...
As always PCS if moving in the right direction but they are pure followers with a couple of years to catch up...
So if you want to have my opinion on PCS Webify: "a plaster on a wooden leg" (In brief: it has no future)
Just my 2 cents...
Peter Holemans
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 17, 2021 02:38AM |
Admin Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 296 |
Hello Günter
I agree with Peter and I question the need to have web software in a lot of instances.
"Webifying" a Windows PC app can already be done without any intervention by PCSoft and there would still need to be major work done at the screen design / size level in which case it might be better to start from scratch.
I use TSPlus on the AWS servers I supply to clients and the TSPlus inbuilt web server works very well to provide my app in a browser. Another client - with excellent in-house tech people - runs my app on an MS Azure Server and they do some magic that allows my app to run in a browser with no intervention from me.
The problem then is that invariably that users try to access the app from a phone or tablet and that just doesn't work because everything is based around a base PC monitor resolution size of 1024 x 768 and it is unreadable on a phone and very difficult on a table. There is also the issue of the touch interface and the size of the controls on the screen.
At the moment, I am working with a client to provide specific screens and functions designed for phones and tablets. These are Windev screens but accessed via a browser on the phone / tablet and they work quite well.
Regards
Al
I agree with Peter and I question the need to have web software in a lot of instances.
"Webifying" a Windows PC app can already be done without any intervention by PCSoft and there would still need to be major work done at the screen design / size level in which case it might be better to start from scratch.
I use TSPlus on the AWS servers I supply to clients and the TSPlus inbuilt web server works very well to provide my app in a browser. Another client - with excellent in-house tech people - runs my app on an MS Azure Server and they do some magic that allows my app to run in a browser with no intervention from me.
The problem then is that invariably that users try to access the app from a phone or tablet and that just doesn't work because everything is based around a base PC monitor resolution size of 1024 x 768 and it is unreadable on a phone and very difficult on a table. There is also the issue of the touch interface and the size of the controls on the screen.
At the moment, I am working with a client to provide specific screens and functions designed for phones and tablets. These are Windev screens but accessed via a browser on the phone / tablet and they work quite well.
Regards
Al
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 17, 2021 09:00AM |
Admin Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 501 |
Hi Peter and Al,
thanks a lot for your views! I hoped to get a PCS basis for desktop and web this way. During the last decade, quite a few tools tried to find a "develop for one, use on many" (marketing) strategy. Last one is Flutter/Dart, before that there was B4x. TSPlus seems to be a way to convert WINDEV programs into a working browser app. Thanks to you both!!
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
thanks a lot for your views! I hoped to get a PCS basis for desktop and web this way. During the last decade, quite a few tools tried to find a "develop for one, use on many" (marketing) strategy. Last one is Flutter/Dart, before that there was B4x. TSPlus seems to be a way to convert WINDEV programs into a working browser app. Thanks to you both!!
Kind regards,
Guenter Predl
office@windev.at
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 17, 2021 11:06AM |
Registered: 3 years ago Posts: 107 |
Hi Günter & Al
It can work with WX as I have apps in my portfolio that do windows, web and mobile...
But, these are not Windows based applications that have been converted, it are applications that are architected from the start to this purpose.
- There is a logic tier (that can be client and server based) designed to target all three platforms (with lots of <COMPILE IF> preprocessors and workarounds for WL that is only supported on some.
- There is a data tier that is completely segregated
- Next the UIs on top of that are built per target environment but they all use the same logic tier
Just trying to say this Webify thing is something that cannot handle this sort of segregation if it is not already in the design of your Windows app.
Cheers
Peter
It can work with WX as I have apps in my portfolio that do windows, web and mobile...
But, these are not Windows based applications that have been converted, it are applications that are architected from the start to this purpose.
- There is a logic tier (that can be client and server based) designed to target all three platforms (with lots of <COMPILE IF> preprocessors and workarounds for WL that is only supported on some.
- There is a data tier that is completely segregated
- Next the UIs on top of that are built per target environment but they all use the same logic tier
Just trying to say this Webify thing is something that cannot handle this sort of segregation if it is not already in the design of your Windows app.
Cheers
Peter
|
Re: WEBIFY - how does it work? April 17, 2021 02:44PM |
Registered: 5 years ago Posts: 216 |
Hi Guenter,
other than keeping the UI, Business, and Data-tier segregate there isn't anything different in the WEB world [when making Business Applications].
And if you already do this in your WINDEV apps, WEBIFY, is a good start ...
Of course, if you want to make WEB sites with millions of users you would indeed need other kinds of technologies ...
Now about phones (or other small factor devices) forget the WEB - I have NEVER seen anything that really works !!
There is a reason why the REAL big guys create Android or iPhone native business apps instead of using the WEB - it just doesn't work.
And NOBODY is crazy to try to add the full functionality of their, say ERPs, to an iPhone or an Android phone - they are just small-little apps, mostly designed by third parties.
Now, what Peter says, is mostly a programmer's "paradigm problem" - nothing can stop you from integrating Teams, Slack, Whatsapp, or whatever else you can think of in your WX apps - it is just a problem of "seeing the whole world" differently. WX is fully capable of doing it - if of course, your market needs it.
Regards
Steven Sitas
other than keeping the UI, Business, and Data-tier segregate there isn't anything different in the WEB world [when making Business Applications].
And if you already do this in your WINDEV apps, WEBIFY, is a good start ...
Of course, if you want to make WEB sites with millions of users you would indeed need other kinds of technologies ...
Now about phones (or other small factor devices) forget the WEB - I have NEVER seen anything that really works !!
There is a reason why the REAL big guys create Android or iPhone native business apps instead of using the WEB - it just doesn't work.
And NOBODY is crazy to try to add the full functionality of their, say ERPs, to an iPhone or an Android phone - they are just small-little apps, mostly designed by third parties.
Now, what Peter says, is mostly a programmer's "paradigm problem" - nothing can stop you from integrating Teams, Slack, Whatsapp, or whatever else you can think of in your WX apps - it is just a problem of "seeing the whole world" differently. WX is fully capable of doing it - if of course, your market needs it.
Regards
Steven Sitas