Windows in WD 23

Hello All,

Just started using WD23 update app that cam from 19.

Issue with The 1st project window and restore/maximize

If you have 1 window in full screen and 1 not and you click the restore button of the maximized screen the other screen will maximize.

1) Open a First app and make sure it is full screen.

2) Open a sister window if it is full screen click the restore button to take it out of full screen mode.

Now click the restore/maximize button of the Parent(the one in full screen) and the other window will maximize.

Can some confirm this please.

DW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2018 06:42PM by cabinetman.

Hi Dennis

I'm not sure alot of people are STILL using MDI, a technology that even microsoft has abandonned (and they created it)

Maybe it's time to modernize your application?

best regards

Fabrice Harari
International WinDev, WebDev and WinDev mobile Consulting

Free Video Courses, free WXShowroom.com, open source WXReplication, open
source WXEDM.

More information on [www.fabriceharari.com]

Hi cabinetman,

this is the way MDI is working! [docs.microsoft.com]

Btw, WINDEV by itself is an MDI application too!

If you have several windows open and one of them is maximized then all of the MDI child windows will be maximized. Admitted, the mechanics of MDI are a bit weird. However, I'm still using MDI too. The trick is to keep all of the open windows forcibly maximized and to keep users from digging in previously opened windows. Then the application looks like using internal windows - without those weird problems with internal windows. However MDI is strictly "Windows" and will not work in any other platform.

Beware: the only way to start an MDI project is to run a full application RAD after input of some files in the analysis using RAD11 ! Though the information that your project is an MDI project is somewhere hidden in the project description for sure, there is no check box to be found in the Project Description. So, there s no way to switch an SDI app to MDI. PC Soft knows the missing checkbox since about 15 years but is not willing to put that check box somewhere.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2018 06:35PM by harvey68.

Sorry Guys there is a correction it is Free windows. the First window of the app and the second window that was opened afterwards.

After going to another office and testing on different machines I found that machines that are on a domain with desktop redirection are the ones having the issues. Standalone machines that are not part of a domain are not experiencing any of the strange behavior.

This goes back to a previous post about double clicking a table to open a form when closed and the next single click on any table on the form the double click code to run, this does not happen on machines that are not connected to a domain.

DW

fabriceharari Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Dennis
>
> I'm not sure alot of people are STILL using MDI, a
> technology that even microsoft has abandonned (and
> they created it)
>
> Maybe it's time to modernize your application?
>
> best regards

ROFL. It hasn't been abandoned by Microsoft at all, and works exactly as it has for the past 20 years or more.

WinDev - Develop 10 times slower, as you're forced to find alternate ways of doing things, since even the most rudimentary of Win32 API functions doesn't work as intended.

Hi David,
nice to see you on this forum.

What is making you so angry with WINDEV?

Regards
Steven Sitas
[www.alpha360.biz]

StevenSitas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi David,
> nice to see you on this forum.
>
> What is making you so angry with WINDEV?
>
> Regards
> Steven Sitas

Because many of his ex-Clarionite friends are here and he wanted to say HI?

StevenSitas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi David,
> nice to see you on this forum.
>
> What is making you so angry with WINDEV?
>
> Regards
> Steven Sitas
> [www.alpha360.biz]

I just find it amusing when people like Fabrice try to blame a deficiency in a product (WinDev, in this case) on either the programmer (because how dare he choose to implement an MDI GUI!) or by spreading misinformation regarding Microsoft's support of MDI. Frankly, it's pathetic.

ArtBonds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> StevenSitas Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Hi David,
> > nice to see you on this forum.
> >
> > What is making you so angry with WINDEV?
> >
> > Regards
> > Steven Sitas
>
> Because many of his ex-Clarionite friends are here
> and he wanted to say HI?

Yes they are, and I'm happy they've found something that works for them. I will say this however - the Clarion user-base are usually the first to admit the shortcomings of the Clarion development system; unlike others (Fabrice) who choose to blame everyone and everything else. But perhaps that just says more about the French than it does anything else.

Hi David,

The French have a nice saying. C'est le ton qui fait la musique.

Regards,
Adri

We have developed MDI applications in WinDev which perform awesomely well for intended purposes. Clients can open multiple charts and reports, arrange them, save them, recall them, and monitor multiple different aspects of the financial markets easily. Clients love it. We have an absolutely state-of-the-art modern interface (yes, happy to back that claim up : ). In addition, applications like Excel still have MDI interfaces allowing multiple spreadsheets to be opened and viewed in a single desktop window. I dont see any problem with MDI either as a interface choice nor as a problem to implement.

Just my 2c.

Hi David,

When have I been blaming anything on anybody?

AFAIK, I always try to give answer that will provide some kind of solution. I may not agree on HOW to do things, but that is all, and the solutions that I'm giving are working.

It looks to me like YOU are the one being aggressive here.

And I don't remember you giving any answer to anybody on this forum... EVER?

So I'm not sure what leg you think you are standing on... And I would appreciate it if you would not try and start a war here.

Best regards

Fabrice Harari
International WinDev, WebDev and WinDev mobile Consulting

Free Video Courses, free WXShowroom.com, open source WXReplication, open
source WXEDM.

More information on [www.fabriceharari.com]

Fabrice,

I second that...

Hi Fabrice,

You stated that Microsoft has "abandoned" MDI, and that the OP should "modernize" his application. The first statement was incorrect, so I corrected you. I'm sorry if you find that aggressive, but providing solutions based on misinformation is, in my books, not particularly helpful.

As others have mentioned, MDI can be made to work in WinDev, and I'm sure I need not mention that Clarion handles the MDI metaphor superbly.

Dave


fabriceharari Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi David,
>
> When have I been blaming anything on anybody?
>
> AFAIK, I always try to give answer that will
> provide some kind of solution. I may not agree on
> HOW to do things, but that is all, and the
> solutions that I'm giving are working.
>
> It looks to me like YOU are the one being
> aggressive here.
>
> And I don't remember you giving any answer to
> anybody on this forum... EVER?
>
> So I'm not sure what leg you think you are
> standing on... And I would appreciate it if you
> would not try and start a war here.
>
> Best regards

Hi David,
to be fair with Fabrice (and the MDI thing) there are issues with MDI _AND_ Threads.
A developer must be very carefull when using 3rd party libraries with MDI _AND_ threads.
And it doesn't matter if he is using Delphi, QT(C++) or VB - sooner or later he will see the problem.
So, at least for me, it looks like a good idea to avoid MDI (and threads) in new projects ...

Of course WD or Clarion developers, when they work in the "limited scope" of the tools libraries, can probably "ignore the issue".
But as soon as they use a 3rd party library they might encounter problems ...

And for history and old days ...
---------------------------------------
Older Clarion developers probably remember this issue - it happened when SV introduced a new thread model in Clarion v5x or 6x(?) - AND it is probably fixed now ...
Here is an OLD post from Diego (at SV) - copied directly from a post you made at ClarionMag:
[clarionmag.jira.com]

"The problem is not with MDI but with threaded MDI. MS does not support windows to be open in multi threaded MDI because the part of code in the OS that manage the MDI is not thread safe."
---------------------------------------------------

Regards
Steven Sitas

Touché!

Dave

StevenSitas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi David,
> to be fair with Fabrice (and the MDI thing) there
> are issues with MDI _AND_ Threads.
> A developer must be very carefull when using 3rd
> party libraries with MDI _AND_ threads.
> And it doesn't matter if he is using Delphi,
> QT(C++) or VB - sooner or later he will see the
> problem.
> So, at least for me, it looks like a good idea to
> avoid MDI (and threads) in new projects ...
>
> Of course WD or Clarion developers, when they work
> in the "limited scope" of the tools libraries, can
> probably "ignore the issue".
> But as soon as they use a 3rd party library they
> might encounter problems ...
>
> And for history and old days ...
> ---------------------------------------
> Older Clarion developers probably remember this
> issue - it happened when SV introduced a new
> thread model in Clarion v5x or 6x(?) - AND it is
> probably fixed now ...
> Here is an OLD post from Diego (at SV) - copied
> directly from a post you made at ClarionMag:
> [clarionmag.jira.com]
>
> "The problem is not with MDI but with threaded
> MDI. MS does not support windows to be open in
> multi threaded MDI because the part of code in the
> OS that manage the MDI is not thread safe."
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Regards
> Steven Sitas

To David,

I quote "...unlike others (Fabrice) who choose to blame everyone and everything else..."

If that isn't aggressive, I don't know what is...

And to be perfectly honest, I've had enough of people with your attitude on french forums, where I decided to stop answering questions because of that.

It seems that the problem is now coming up on English languages forums too, and as the only common denominator is me, I'm going to consider that -I- am the problem and remove myself from the equation...

From now on, thanks to you David, I will not be answering any question anymore, for free, on my own time, on this forum.

Anybody who has a problem with that can take it up with David, as this is my last message...

Best regards to everybody else....

Fabrice Harari, signing off

Hi Fabrice,

I think, that without you, this community will not be the same anymore.
If it wasn't for your support and technical knowledge I personally would have left WX a long time ago.

I hope you will reconsider things in the future, so I am not saying goodbye

* I am trying to find the message you sent me a few months back, when a guy "attacked me" on one of the French forums.
But I am sure you understand what I am talking about

Regards
Steven Sitas



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2018 02:13PM by StevenSitas.

Hello Fabrice,

I don't know who this David is and really don't care. As far as what you contribute to this forum is greatly appreciated and I would really hate to see you go. I can only say thank you for all you have done and I can only hope you would reconsider, please don't let 1 idiot destroy a good thing for all us.

Dennis W



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2018 08:41PM by cabinetman.

Hi Fabrice,

could´t say it better then Dennis. Please overthink your decision.

It would be a great loss if you quit the forum.

regards Michael

I guess Fabrice has finally seen the light and is making the switch to Clarion. Welcome aboard, mon ami!

But in all seriousness, just take a chill pill and return to your regularly scheduled programming.

Dave

@David,

Actually, you need to apologize instead of making light of it. Your post was, by any objective measure, a personal attack, unwarranted, and without value. Actually I cannot think of anyone fitting your description of "... blaming everyone and everything..." on this forum. People can have different opinions about tools and techniques to use but certainly I don't see anyone fitting your claim here. You decided to attack the person (Fabrice and anyone else you felt fitted your description) instead of the topic of discussion (MDI interface) .

Hi David,

as one of the admins of this forum I'm definitely not happy about quarreling. We are here to give and get help on issues which refer to our current projects and those we have to maintain. These issues / infos are - please, see the forum's name - connected to products from PC Soft. We have a mutual interest in helping each other. This is not the place for "my language is better than yours!". All of us are using the same language, it's the W-Language of WINDEV, WEBDEV and WINDEV Mobile. If you think that Clarion is better suited to solve YOUR problems, fine, just go to any of the Clarion forums but don't waste our time and our nerves.

Thank you for your understanding!
Guenter Predl

Hi Guenter,

Any reference to Clarion was completely tongue-in-cheek. I do apologize if that wasn't immediately obvious. In fact, if you check the chronology of this post, you'll note that I wasn't the one who brought Clarion into it in the first place

Regarding quarreling, I would respectfully say that some people need to grow either a thicker skin or a sense of humor, or perhaps both. I have no beef with anyone; I'm strictly a vegetarian.

To Fabrice, I humbly apologize for any offence I caused you by suggesting that MDI is still a valid interface metaphor. I will, from now on, endeavor to create only single threaded Windows Store apps, running a byte-code compiled language (CLR) from a byte-code compiled language (WinDev). But seriously, I do hope you will come back to the forum, as you have been, without question, one of the great contributors to the English speaking WinDev community, and it would indeed be a lesser place without your continued presence.

Dave

harvey68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi David,
>
> as one of the admins of this forum I'm definitely
> not happy about quarreling. We are here to give
> and get help on issues which refer to our current
> projects and those we have to maintain. These
> issues / infos are - please, see the forum's name
> - connected to products from PC Soft. We have a
> mutual interest in helping each other. This is
> not the place for "my language is better than
> yours!". All of us are using the same
> language, it's the W-Language of WINDEV, WEBDEV
> and WINDEV Mobile. If you think that Clarion is
> better suited to solve YOUR problems, fine, just
> go to any of the Clarion forums but don't waste
> our time and our nerves.
>
> Thank you for your understanding!
> Guenter Predl

David Harms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ArtBonds Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > StevenSitas Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > Hi David,
> > > nice to see you on this forum.
> > >
> > > What is making you so angry with WINDEV?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Steven Sitas
> >
> > Because many of his ex-Clarionite friends are
> here
> > and he wanted to say HI?
>
> Yes they are, and I'm happy they've found
> something that works for them. I will say this
> however - the Clarion user-base are usually the
> first to admit the shortcomings of the Clarion
> development system; unlike others (Fabrice) who
> choose to blame everyone and everything else. But
> perhaps that just says more about the French than
> it does anything else.

Mostly right about the user base admitting shortcomings. And now that Russ "Clarion Cheerleader Extraordinaire" Eggan has departed this world it's even more true. Clarion users I have found are sometimes brutally honest with everybody.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2018 12:40AM by ArtBonds.

Hi All

I had no idea this nonsense was on the go. What a great pity. I have benefited enormously from the help that Fabrice has provided. What a shame. I hope he reconsiders and gets back in here to help.

As for Clarion, well, having used it as the primary tool for our desktop apps for about 24 years or so and continue to partly use it for them I have to agree with you Art, when you write:

Clarion users I have found are sometimes brutally honest with everybody.

Clarion developers are profoundly critical of the tool when it falls short. There is no question about that. And SV tolerates the attacks on their forums. I have always maintained that this is to their credit and strengthens their position. It is something I have found sadly lacking in the WX world. The first step to sorting a problem is admitting there is one. With PCSoft posts get vetted before appearing - crazy stuff.

As for *switching* to Clarion as opposed to using Clarion + WX + Delphi + C++ Builder and whatever language you need [pick your poison] to get your offering out there I think you would be nuts to do so. The reason why we ended up using PCSoft offerings is on account of a lack of functionality, no:

[1] Unicode support.

[2] 64 bit support

[3] Linux support

[4] Mac support - we have successfully generated some Java apps for Apple.

[5] Web App generation

[6] Native mobile app generation

I could mention very many more reasons why we had to add to our Clarion experience to stay in the game.

Use whatever tool does the best job at the time and that gets you past the winning post. Each has its strengths and each has its weaknesses. There is no one language is better than the other. And never expect to use the same and only one language going forward.

Fabrice - if you are reading any of this please come back and help us. We need you and your experience and knowledge of this development platform.

Cheers
André
(who uses whatever language and code for whatever that delivers the goods)