This is the new WINDEV forum on www.wxforum.info which is a successor to the WINDEV forum http://27130.foren.mysnip.de/index.php?27130 (2008 - 2018) while this one was a successor to the WINDEV forum on parsimony from 2000 - 2008 ** 18 years of successful mutual support of users of WINDEV, WEBDEV and WINDEV Mobile products ** https://www.wxforum.info/list.php?27131 Fri, 06 Mar 2026 13:00:14 +0100 Phorum 5.2.23 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799164#msg-799164 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799164#msg-799164
Great post, agree with you. We are also very probably (99% sure) just going to stick with 2025 non-subs version. So much trust lost.]]> JP WinDev Forum Fri, 06 Mar 2026 09:30:10 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,798416,799163#msg-799163 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,798416,799163#msg-799163 gpredl WinDev Forum Fri, 06 Mar 2026 08:55:33 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799162#msg-799162 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799162#msg-799162
You wouldn't believe it, it's about 25 years now that we are distributors of PC Soft, but up to today we haven't received a single e-Mail or letter that informs us about price changes, new products, a policy or something like that. We are kept like champignons - always in the dark! If we want to know something, we have to ask.

As a software supplier for Philips Data Systems we made a universal ERP program for them. In order to sell that software I had to treat more that 120 dealers with information, free courses and on-site personal support. This way, far more than 1000 pieces of that ERP software could be sold.]]> gpredl WinDev Forum Fri, 06 Mar 2026 08:52:41 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799161#msg-799161 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799161#msg-799161
However - I did pick up a cultural note from one of the French comments - and explained by AI.

The real reference: “Sûr et certain” by Tonton David

The line you quoted:
“…et je suis sûr, sûr qu’on nous prend pour des cons, j’en suis certain !”

comes from Tonton David’s 1991 song “Sûr et certain”.
It’s a reggae‑raggamuffin track where he denounces:
- political hypocrisy
- social injustice
- authorities treating ordinary people like fools
The key refrain is:
“Et je suis sûr, sûr qu’on nous prend pour des cons, j’en suis certain.”
(“And I’m sure, sure they take us for idiots, I’m certain of it.”)

This line became a meme‑level cultural reference in France.
People quote it whenever:
- an institution behaves opaquely
- a company hides information
- a system makes no sense
- a vendor treats users like they won’t notice
So when someone in the WinDev/WebDev/PC Soft ecosystem says:
“Ça me rappelle Tonton David…”

they mean:
“This situation feels exactly like that lyric — PC Soft is treating us like idiots.”]]> DerekM WinDev Forum Fri, 06 Mar 2026 01:28:37 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,798416,799160#msg-799160 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,798416,799160#msg-799160
[lightrest.codeline.fr]

Best Regards

Biju]]> bijuAlaska WinDev Forum Thu, 05 Mar 2026 13:05:59 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799159#msg-799159 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799159#msg-799159
I think that few people today would trust installing anything from PC Soft on their “golden” dongles.

For most of desktop projects (e.g., ERP systems, data exchange, file system manipulation, crud on databases, windows services, api calls, comunication with physical devices, etc), a WD20 IDE is enough, as it does almost everything you need. Most of the native features introduced in later versions can be replicated with a few lines of code that queue up functions ever since available.
Even for graphical interfaces.. many features, templates, skins provided by new versions can be easily replicated with combinations of existing controls. Even better if you have a WD25 or recent WD2024/2025, which seem to be among the most stable dongle versions after WD20.

In my opinion, freelancers and small businesses have quite no reason to switch to subscription model if they develop mainly on desktop.
Of course, you will miss out on AI developments, but for the moment I don't think this is such a serious shortcoming if you have built your own framework to do the things you need, even developing workarounds to overcome all the unresolved PC Soft bugs.
With recent dongle WDs you can also develop stable and powerful web services to manage internal functionalities for individual company installations and for this purpose a 10-connections WAS is generally sufficient.
So working with desktop IDE is indeed wonderful, especially for people that lack experience in other languages, technologies and tools.
In short, it is not a universal rule but honestly in my business from WD25 "I can't do it in Windev" has never happened to me. It's so true that I have never considered upgrading even when subscription didn't exist yet, if not out of curiosity..

The real problem arises on Webdev, where between WAS (if you publish sites, 10 connections are certainly not enough) and the need to stay always aligned with web evolution, the only choices are: either bow your head and subscribe or quickly plan to give up PC Soft.
I never did web development but all my colleagues/partners that used webdev said it has never been up to par with other widespread technologies and tools (python,node,php,etc). So people could avoid or flee from Webdev for other reasons than subscription, it seems not to be a "must have" tool like windev desktop. On WB I stop talking here because I don't know it very well.

On mobile the situation is similar to Webdev, although perhaps less critical. If you make apps that go on stores aimed at the public, you have to align yourself or change tool, both for the app and for the web service, if windev, on the server side. However, if they are internal apps for individual customers, a WM25 still is more than enough. It does practically everything you need, and you can often rely on a WAS 10 connection if you run them using local data or if server access for data read is lightning fast. At worst, you can install 2 or 3 on various machine.. Ugly idea but it works.

Personally, I'm following everything with interest and curiosity, but I think that with my dongles I will happily reach retirement age and leave the problem to posterity :)]]> GSWD WinDev Forum Thu, 05 Mar 2026 07:29:15 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799158#msg-799158 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799158#msg-799158
This is an attempt to get hold of our existing "use forever for free" dongles and convert them to "pay forever" dongles.

Once that happens it's game over and they can do whatever they want and charge whatever they want.

Al]]> Al WinDev Forum Wed, 04 Mar 2026 09:36:30 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799157#msg-799157 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799157#msg-799157 JP WinDev Forum Wed, 04 Mar 2026 09:20:24 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799156#msg-799156 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799156#msg-799156 www.youtube.com] - Don't forge to read the 26 comments (uses a translator) - 26 comments - all negative,]]> DerekM WinDev Forum Wed, 04 Mar 2026 08:23:06 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799152,799152#msg-799152 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799152,799152#msg-799152
Anybody managed to activate the 10 - user lic for webdev app server ?

I am not sure how to activate them.

Regards,

PETER ZHOU]]> PETER ZHOU WinDev Forum Mon, 02 Mar 2026 15:22:16 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799145,799147#msg-799147 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799145,799147#msg-799147
for the time being we as a distributor didn't receive any English language information about that "security dongle" yet. Even the French web site doesn't mention it and its operational and legal context. Since there's no price of the "security dongle" mentioned, I think it is - currently - not available at all.]]> gpredl WinDev Forum Wed, 25 Feb 2026 07:46:58 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799145,799145#msg-799145 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799145,799145#msg-799145
I have received some interesting information about the PCSoft Security Key offer.

"PC SOFT will introduce a "Security Key" solution that uses your current dongle and is associated with an annual subscription."

I am not sure if this refers to a current subscription type dongle or the conversion of an existing "use forever" dongle.

I would never trust PCSoft to load any code into my existing "use forever" dongles to convert them from "use forever" to "use while you pay"

The video on the French site mentions converting dongles so still not clear.

For me it is academic as I have no intention of ever going to the subscription model.

Regards
Al]]> Al WinDev Forum Wed, 25 Feb 2026 02:06:43 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799085,799144#msg-799144 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799085,799144#msg-799144 Allard WinDev Forum Tue, 24 Feb 2026 23:34:44 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799143#msg-799143 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799143#msg-799143
As Al said, "As for them listening to customers, they never seemed to in the past". This move or proposal - not only highlights that they did indeed understand the general user concerns, and the explicit issues of concern regarding on-going access to the source code of deployed applications, but they did not care.

Some AI searches at the time, described PC Soft's approach as "predatory". And the new "WD Key" approach also highlights that it was unnecessary. Yes, you can have ongoing access to you own source code, but first you pay us more upfront. Sounds like the word "predatory" was a very good description.

Regards,
Derek]]> DerekM WinDev Forum Mon, 23 Feb 2026 03:06:11 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799141,799141#msg-799141 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799141,799141#msg-799141 www.youtube.com]

Maybe, we can translate it?]]> gpredl WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 09:44:39 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799140#msg-799140 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799140#msg-799140
I switched on the subtitles of the video (this is on YouTube and you can do that) and let it translate from French to English. In essence it says,you can buy a dongle (v26?) in addition to your abonnement. This dongle is 50% in price of your abonnement and is called a security means in case if your internet connection fails, a nuclear war hits your country or something like that. You don't get such a dongle without abonnement.

Ignoring their non-French customers seems to become a standard. You have a good command of French or get lost!]]> gpredl WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 08:57:40 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799139#msg-799139 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799139#msg-799139
The problem is not the subscription. That entirely misses the actual risk. The problem is that if you stop the subscription then the IDE stops working, you cannot edit existing projects, you cannot fix existing code. i.e. even though you paid to create projects and code, you will be locked out of them if you stop subscribing. Other development tools, even subscription ones, do not do that; if you stop subscribing then all that happens is that you do not get newer versions and updates. But you can still use everything in the version up to the point you stopped subscribing ... forever.

From a business perspective this is 100% unacceptable situation because it means another company controls your company/projects ... if subscription ends, or for any other reason that they can dictate, you can be locked out of your projects and denied access to your source code.

At least, this is my understanding of the situation but if someone knows different then they can comment and correct me.

Maybe this new video shows that they are re-considering this but I am not 100% clear on that. Does the dongle give you on-going access even without subscription? Maybe but looks expensive too as Derek points out.]]> JP WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 08:10:36 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799138#msg-799138 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799138#msg-799138
Initial set-up approx. 2,000 EU + 1 year subscription approx. 2,000 EU (suite + WebDev + deploy) - INCLUDING THE 50% surcharge..

That's 4,000 Euro to start and 4,000 Euro per year - per licence

That's approx. AUD6,700 per year, per licence.]]> DerekM WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 06:37:32 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799137#msg-799137 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799137#msg-799137
So far - I can't see much information. But a machine translation of one of the comments does not look good.

Seems the devil may indeed be in the detail ...

50% more? Per year?! Windev is greedy, they want you to get your money's worth!

Well, this “security key” only allows you to use the “latest version” of the product you're subscribed to...

So, forget about versions older than 2026! (downgrading to V23 to meet the entry conditions for V2026...) And later, when switching to the “security key,” there’s no access to previous versions, so you’re stuck with the “subscription” version... Not to mention the price, which is just a big scam...

Oh, and if you’re in a country that isn’t considered a “friend” by Constellation (-50% of their value in 1 year! Congrats!), then geolocation kicks in, and poof! No more access to your subscription... They’ll end up like TeamViewer: -90% in 5 years!]]> DerekM WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 05:58:59 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799136#msg-799136 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799136#msg-799136
As Al says - when I see more details ...

The fundamental issue was always ownership of your own source code, and the ability to maintain it regardless. If this is truly addressed, then it is indeed good news.

I could envision a circumstance where the single point of failure (SAAS License protocol) of precluding my software from increasing governmental control and certification requirements, as I am already subjected to audits by 4 different government agencies

Meanwhile, I have already embarked on an escape plan from PCSoft. Nothing will go to waste here, as I am incrementally replicating WinDev and WebDev module - interfacing using WebDev webservices - and it's actually quite seamless, so I can already utilize all newer technologies (Blazor/React) - and I don't need to wait for the 900 new features each year either.

Some of the underlying technologies of PC Soft are already a bit dated. It is mostly all 'good enough' - but with newer technologies - I don't have to code a WinDev version then convert and re-write for WebDev (or vice versa) - I just have to write once and deploy wherever.

But I still like WinDev and I have a lot invested here - and (if this is all true) - then that is a good move.

Regards,
Derek]]> DerekM WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 04:30:16 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799135#msg-799135 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799135#msg-799135
The problem for me was never the fact of paying monthly.

The problem was the fact that PCSoft changed the business terms so that if I stopped paying, my clients web pages stopped and I could no longer maintain any of my WX code. In effect PCSoft took over my business and I ended up working for them which is not acceptable.
This destroyed any trust I had in the company and I would never feel secure enough to deal with them again.

As for them listening to customers, they never seemed to in the past and they never accepted their non French speaking clients as worthy of their full attention and only gave grudging support. They actively refused to provide LST support to their non French customers.

The pity is that there are no real alternatives to the WX Products.

Regards
Al]]> Al WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 02:17:27 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799134#msg-799134 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799134#msg-799134 I see it very differently from you Al. It appears they listened to their customers' concerns and came up with a potential solution.

I spent a few months looking around for alternatives back when they first announced the subscription model, and found nothing with WX's cross platform capabilities that was economically competitive. I see posts from developers on this forum who complain about PCSoft's subscription model, who then suggest competing products...with a subscription model. They also never voice concerns about 'what if this company goes out of business - how do access all my code' - that seems reserved for PCSoft.

I make my living with WX, and my only real concern was their poor integration of AI code assistance, and with WX2026 that is very well taken care of. With update 1 it is significantly improved again, so for me I'm very happy to stay with PCSoft, especially now they are trying to address the concerns about accessing the IDE without internet access, or if PCSoft goes away.

Rgds
Paul]]> pauly139 WinDev Forum Fri, 20 Feb 2026 01:19:46 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799133#msg-799133 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799133#msg-799133
Not sure if it is good new or not as the message is not certainly not clear.

We are to now expected trust a company that made a quick cash grab by destabilising their customers and continues this by showing so little regard for their non French clients speaking clients that they release this news in a French language video with a garbled English only over dub and no English or any other language documentation ?

Much more info is required but who would trust them not have any hidden traps in this "Security Key".

Regards
Al]]> Al WinDev Forum Thu, 19 Feb 2026 22:58:19 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799132#msg-799132 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799132,799132#msg-799132 WD Key]]> Michael Drechsel WinDev Forum Thu, 19 Feb 2026 21:27:13 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799085,799129#msg-799129 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799085,799129#msg-799129 anvil.works, which can be used to develop web apps, since the beginning of January. At the beginning of February, I started implementing my first project, which is intended to serve as an extension of my existing Windev software.

For me, the main advantage of anvil.works is that I don't need JavaScript (which I hate), but can implement everything with Python (although JS is still possible).

There is a drag-and-drop designer, an open-source version, and you can host the databases and the app yourself. The free version is perfectly adequate for testing, and there are numerous tutorials.

I plan to synchronize the web app with my Windev software, which can be done either using web services or, more interesting and elegant for me, the uplink function. I write functions in Python (for example, in PyCharm), which I import into my Windev project. This allows me to exchange data bidirectionally.

Of course, it's difficult to make a real recommendation after such a short time; weaknesses only become apparent gradually. But so far, it makes a promising impression.

The main change for me so far is that I'm used to working with SQL statements. This is implemented differently here, but with a little practice it will certainly not be a problem. Basically, the topic of data binding is implemented sensibly and reduces development effort.

Incidentally, Anvil.works is not an AI builder, which is fine with me because I need to understand what I'm doing. And many low-code tools state on their websites that they are intended for the development of internal programs, which does not exactly inspire confidence.]]> Markus K. WinDev Forum Wed, 11 Feb 2026 17:58:59 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799126,799128#msg-799128 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799126,799128#msg-799128
Accedentally I struck Claude sonnet 4.5. This does nice things I think, but I have to upgrade first to Opus 4.6, the paid version.
Thank you very much for your response.

Best regards,

Aad]]> AadG WinDev Forum Wed, 11 Feb 2026 10:20:59 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799126,799127#msg-799127 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799126,799127#msg-799127 I found the AI is v24 / v25 useless. However in v2026 it is a totally different and allows vibe coding. The AI sin't built in, you still select (and pay) for the service you want. I switch to Claude Opus 4.6 since it came out late last week, and it is amazing. You still need to review and test the generated code, however when you have two or three IDEs open, all generating their own code productivity reaches new levels.

Rgds
Paul]]> pauly139 WinDev Forum Tue, 10 Feb 2026 22:23:18 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799126,799126#msg-799126 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799126,799126#msg-799126
I tried several AI generators with different results. I decided to stick with versions (24), bexause ithey fill my needs.
Does anyone has experience with this and is the best generator to use with both versions of the PCSoft product.

I know that the versions of Windev 2026 I believe has built in AI, but for me it's not worth the investment considering
the new pricing.

Thanks for any advice.

Besta Regards,

Aad]]> AadG WinDev Forum Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:22:07 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799085,799124#msg-799124 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799085,799124#msg-799124 Allard WinDev Forum Mon, 09 Feb 2026 22:03:39 +0100 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799063,799123#msg-799123 https://www.wxforum.info/read.php?27131,799063,799123#msg-799123
if use is included in the subscription Hmm then is is not souch a bad deal anymore. Ihaowever now use AI all the time and I like the productivity it gives me . it is not cheap !! but 100x faster (tu)]]> Allard WinDev Forum Mon, 09 Feb 2026 20:57:17 +0100