New SaaS Versions

Re: New SaaS Versions

MiellesMain — Mon, 06 Jan 2025 16:56:21 +0100

Cyril Fernandes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to retain my Dongle version of WEBDEV 20.
> Cyril

Seems like the converted dongles will work up to Windev 23.

Re: New SaaS Versions

Allard — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 20:44:10 +0200

That is exactly how I see it.

Iam not going to work in the cloud. The risk is way to big. It they stop selling dongles or a way to work not connected to their cloud ==> then Iam going to stop upgrading and I then will be looking at other programming pratforms.

Re: New SaaS Versions

DerekM — Sat, 21 Sep 2024 19:08:09 +0200

Has anyone considered the inherent risk of the unknown unknowns?

If anything, for any reason, should interrupt the connection to Montpelier, then any system developed using WinDev/WebDev - using this SAAS model - is immediately out of business.

No access <=> No support <=> Out of business

No software updates is fine - but no ability to support your existing deployed application is not fine.

Regardless of cost or convenience - I think this SAAS model poses an unacceptable risk.

If PC Soft go out of business - you're all out of business.

More and more - my applications are dependent on .NET - and there are plenty of other GUI builders around. So with a dongle - there is always a way forward even if PC Soft go out of business - but not if you are dependent on this SAAS model.

The same I guess - applies to Azure etc. - but Microsoft are a bit bigger than PC Soft.

I cannot think of a compelling reason to adopt this SAAS Model - so my 2 cents says stick with the dongle model as long as it is available - and if ever it is not available - go to plan B.

Re: New SaaS Versions

Allard — Fri, 20 Sep 2024 15:57:42 +0200

What a bout windev mobile. I can make native adroid apps with that ??

Re: New SaaS Versions

gpredl — Fri, 13 Sep 2024 10:38:08 +0200

Hi Fernandez,

No, sorry. To use a WINDEV Saas-version without owning a previously bought one, the SaaS-version will be 499,- as the initial fee and 45,- Euro monthly. Imho, rather you should think about buying a dongle version 2024 ...

Re: New SaaS Versions

Cyril Fernandes — Fri, 13 Sep 2024 10:04:13 +0200

Hi,

I have a dongle version of WEBDEV 20.

Now I want to have a SaaS version of WINDEV (not WEBDEV).

I want to retain my Dongle version of WEBDEV 20.

Is the discount still available?

Regards

Cyril

Re: New SaaS Versions

ntnati — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 12:21:26 +0200

Thank JP and Guenter for clarification.

Hopefully, they leave the dongles alone because as awkward as they are at least one has the option of not upgrading.

Re: New SaaS Versions

gpredl — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:27:32 +0200

ntnati Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Everybody,
>
> I am getting a bit confused. with the
> e introduction of the SaaS license
>
> Will the dongle upgrade for the 2025 (incremented
> from 2024) be available?

YES. The dongles will stay with us.

However. Currently, PC Soft said, that the future ARM versions of the Wx products will be offered by SaaS only!

> I do not like the idea that once I stop paying the
> subscription I will not have access to the windev
> environment, on my laptop, any more therefore
> making my code useless.

No, as I wrote above, the dongle versions will stay with us.
I assume that - as soon as the ARM versions are stable - even the ARM versions will be available as a dongle version.

> I keep on sending email to PCSoft with direct
> questions but the replies never answer the
> question directly or clearly..
>
> I agree that there are advantages but this one
> disadvantage breaks them all.
>
>
> I know this is a bit much but is it time to switch
> again?
>
> Thanks
> Noel

Re: New SaaS Versions

JP — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:24:14 +0200

Noel

I think the problem is this: projects created in later versions cannot, normally speaking, be used in prior versions. This is the case right now with the dongles.This is normal and understood. So moving projects to newer WD versions always includes this condition; you cannot use the project in older WD - at least not without some work and, depending on what you do in your new version project, possibly not at all.

Now the issue is this: if you move to a subscription model where WD needs to refresh its subscription status from time to time AND if the dongle version is dropped THEN you will be stuck in the subscription model forever because you will not be easily able to revert your projects to work with the older WD version dongles you may still have. There might even be WD code inside the project to specifically prevent this ... ?

Of course, this may not be so if you don't use any of the new features in the newer versions but, even so, the project may not open in older versions and there would presumably be some hassle to move new version projects back to older WD versions and, if you have used newer version functionality, then you will have to figure out a way around those features/functionality.

Summary: I think the subscription model, without the dongle option, will tie you into the subscription for as long as you need to use WD for your projects. If there is no dongle option then there is no way out of the subscription. If PCS offer both dongle and subscription models, then great, awesome. But if they force everyone to the subscription only model, for example, by declaring that all new updates and support will only be for subscription versions, then we (my company) will have to think of alternative development platforms. And we have subscribed to WD since, I think, version 5 or something so that would be a really ugly outcome, imho.

The whole world wants to convert their services to subscription models, everyone wants a recurring revenue stream. This is understandable in a service where new content is being provided as a necessity, for example, a stock trading system needs daily or even real-time updates and so a subscription is required. But even companies who just sell static things are trying to create subscription models for them. A friend told me the other day that a car company wants to (or perhaps already has) set up a subscription for allowing the seat warmer to work ... if you want it to work you need to subscribe on a monthly or annual basis, to your seat warmer ... ??!!

YMMV

Re: New SaaS Versions

ntnati — Thu, 12 Sep 2024 10:00:15 +0200

Hi Everybody,

I am getting a bit confused. with the introduction of the SaaS license

Will the dongle upgrade for the 2025 (incremented from 2024) be available?

I do not like the idea that once I stop paying the subscription I will not have access to the windev environment, on my laptop, any more therefore making my code useless.

I keep on sending email to PCSoft with direct questions but the replies never answer the question directly or clearly..

I agree that there are advantages but this one disadvantage breaks them all.

I know this is a bit much but is it time to switch again?

Thanks
Noel

Re: New SaaS Versions

SteveSitas — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 20:02:59 +0200

Peter,

if you upgrade from WX29 to the SaaS versions, you are left with dongles that ONLY work with WX23 or earlier !!!

Of course, you can purchase a NEW SaaS licence and avoid the above, but it is quite pricey.

Regards
Steven Sitas

Re: New SaaS Versions

PeHoBe — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 14:16:57 +0200

Hi Steve

Need to check, but I guess the dongles remain valid for the version up until you paid for.
If you switch to SaaS that only accounts for the newer versions so I guess the dongles still work for your older releases but I haven't touched my dongles since...

It is a bit a weird model indeed where PC$ wants to have the best of both worlds and wants to be sure of the current revenue streams.
In any other SaaS model I know you can start a subscription without a down payment (step-in fee) and you can pay as you go for as long or as short as you want. I guess they're still learning the real SaaS model in Montpellier ;-)

Just my 2 cents

Cheers

Peter

Re: New SaaS Versions

SteveSitas — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 13:27:07 +0200

Hi Peter,

the only "real problem" I have is that if I stop - for any reason - my WX subscription, I will not have access to my WX apps.
I came to WX from Clarion many-many years ago and I still support (and frequently update) various Clarion 6x apps.

If I were stuck in a SaaS model, like the one just introduced by PC Soft, and stopped my subscription, I would never be able to do these updates ...

* I don't have a problem with the new SaaS prices.
** What happens if a "weird company" buys PCSoft and kills the product? This has happened many times in my lifetime.

Regards
Steven Sitas

Re: New SaaS Versions

PeHoBe — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 12:56:00 +0200

Hi all

Both versions will exist next to each other.
Personally I am a real happy user of the SaaS version since beginning of June (even before it was announced) which is actually V30.

As a yearly upgrader (I wonder who is willing to stick nowadays to old stuff anyway?) I only see benefits for the same price and ease of use.
With SCMDrive I connect on VM servers tot the same project using the same license after having developed on a PC and do the builds and deploys from there which is a lot faster. Working with global teams all of the time, licenses are transferrable without any logistics to transfer hardware keys, etc, etc... Only benefits really...

I never understood this anachronism of the dongles (a concept of the 1980s really) they hung on too for so long.

Anyway, it's your choice in the end, so take whatever model fits you best...

Cheers

Peter

Re: New SaaS Versions

gpredl — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 10:35:35 +0200

Hi Steven,

honestly, I don't know much more than anyone of you. If you already own a dongle-version, the dongle will be re-written to allow you using the product without connection to the web. e.g. during flights without internet connection.

Re: New SaaS Versions

SteveSitas — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 09:57:35 +0200

Hi Guenter,
from what I understand, you will still have the product installed locally on your pc.
Only the license model (SaaS) and the protection (now WEB based) is new ...

To solve the issues you state, they could replace the dongle protection with the new web-based protection and lower their prices (and introduce a fair subscription model). As for the announced ARM versions, they look like marketing to me ...

Steven Sitas

Re: New SaaS Versions

gpredl — Fri, 23 Aug 2024 07:40:48 +0200

Hi JP,

I do not know of any intention to discontinue the dongle versions at all. SaaS is an offer in parallel to the dongle versions. Note: there will be no dongle versions for ARM, at least not in the beginning (needing lots of updates)! I believe, the offer has to do with easing the relatively high prices of new versions and updates, you'll get a new version as soon as it is published. Most probably, dongle versions will not be updated as often as the SaaS versions. Next, there are some complaints about the dongles to be heard too. Some Wx-users obviously do their work at the offices of their customers and fear to forget / lose the dongle/s there. The SaaS versions do solve that. There are various schemes to use the dongle version back in the office remotely from the customer's office. If the internet connection is fast enough this will work with Teamviewer, Anydesk etc. If the internet connection to your home office is slow, currently, you have to take the dongle with you and you have to pray you will not damage or lose it. Because of quality considerations, we do not do any programming at customer sites.

Re: New SaaS Versions

JP — Thu, 22 Aug 2024 21:00:00 +0200

Steve, Guenter, all

Any solution that involves the IDE needing to phone home in order to work is a massive danger. It forces developers to totally depend on PCS servers being available to respond with an "OK". In addition, if you cannot access your projects if you stop subscribing, it is a 100% non-option for us.

This move is designed to convert PCS from a once-off purchase model to a forced recurring subscription model - I understand the attraction of that for PCS as a business, sure, but it is not designed to benefit the developer. We will never go down that road. If PCS offer a last dongle version, that will be our last upgrade. I hope they maintain both options and let developers pick the one they trust the most.

Re: New SaaS Versions

SteveSitas — Thu, 22 Aug 2024 19:49:40 +0200

Hi Guenter,
I hope that they support the local versions for a long time in the future.
At least for me, the SAAS model doesn't seem right ...

Stop having access to my projects as soon as I stop my subscription, unfortunately, is NOT an option for me.
If I am forced to go this way, I will be tempted to use another tool ..

PCSoft should think carefully about how its installed user base thinks about the new SAAS offering.

* btw - with other SAAS development environments, you can still work with previous versions, even if you stop your subscription.

Regards
Steven Sitas

Re: New SaaS Versions

Gus Sabina — Thu, 22 Aug 2024 17:23:40 +0200

Hello:

It looks interesting and cheaper than the local version (i.e; using the dongle)...
However, if I understood correctly, once you "convert" your dongles to SaaS, you will only have access to WxDev as long as you pay... In other words, you won't be able to use your local (old) versions as usual.
In my case, I still use WxDev 27...

Regards;
Gus

Re: New SaaS Versions

jtadebruin — Sat, 10 Aug 2024 15:56:09 +0200

Look at....

pcsoft wx as saas

New SaaS Versions

gpredl — Thu, 01 Aug 2024 11:20:39 +0200

Hi friends, I try to inform you about the new SaaS-versions of WINDEV, WEBDEV, WINDEV mobile and additional software. What I do know is ...

1 - You can order an SaaS version of Wx products. You can pay montly, yearly or even 3-yearly. The lowest monthly rate for a single product starts at 45,- Euro (exc luding any taxes).

2 - in order to be able to start with a new SaaS product version, there is a starter fee to be paid. Without being a previous Wx user, it starts at 411,- Euro. NEW: If your current version is 2024, the starter fee = 0,-.

3 - If you already own a dongle-version of one or mor more Wx products, you are elegible to a discout to the starter fee. Currently, we don't know anything about the discount. Please note: it will not be free!!

4 - In the future, there will be Wx versions for ARM prcessors and ARM operating systems (Android, Chromebook, Apple ... ). Currently, all English SaaS products are for x86 processors only!

5 - All ARM versions will be available on SaaS only! There will be no dongle-versions of Wx products for ARM processors.

6 - You can order all SaaS versions with your distributors as usual. You need not use PC Soft's web shop. Pricing of distributors can be different to PC Soft's official pricing.

There is a new in-official French web site for SaaS, it seems to be prepared for future publication.